[J]

Maybe I've misunderstood things, but is the Bold not also, for the first time, 3G as well? least that's what I tawt i red! ::::

[I8UB4]

Originally Posted by jletendre

It's the lacking of games! .. I think you will find a Nintendo DS or Sony PSP the perfect device for you, they just need to get email working on them. If the majority of the AppStore is going to be entertainment focused Apple will never get Enterprise traction and be labeled just another ipod gadget.

Simplistic? I think people have been living under a rock the past year or so.

Telenav - pretty much the mobile standard for GPS mapping. (I think they even have some "3-D")

Bloomberg for Blackberry - pretty much exact copy of the Bloomberg desktop experience, prob never heard or used this since while I'm making $$$ your moaning the lack of quality gaming on the Blackberry.

E-Trade for Blackberry - ditto

WorldMate live - fantastic travel tool for road warriors

InfoSpace Findit! - Best use of LBS I've seen yet.

While I agree the BB web experience is not as robust, it's more then functional and when you visit a properly formatted site for mobility (most of the major ones are now) it's actually a faster experience vs. the constant tap, expand, tap, zoom aspect of the Iphone. Just give me the data.

So you can see there are two different markets out there, professionals who depend on their device to communicate and conduct business, an extension of their office (or in some cases the office is mobile) and casual consumers who have different needs and want nicer graphics, a robust web experience etc.

I feel most of us are the expection and often carry more then one device.

I have to say I agree with Numetheus on this one. A perfect example is the lack of a decent document viewer/editor on BBs. I switched from a Treo to BB about 4 years ago, and I have been distraught about the lack of a decent word/excel/pdf viewer and editor on BBs ever since. You talk about business applications, this is the most basic business application one needs. Opening an attachment on an email, saving it to a memory card, editing it, sending it back... I just upgraded to OS 4.5 on my curve, and it now includes Documents to Go - well, sort of. The fact is, until they upgrade the BIS software in N. America or a company upgrades to the latest BB Enterprise software for their server, Docs to Go is useless. You can't open a word document and properly read it, edit it or save it.

Keep in mind that I had a free version of Documents to Go on my Treo five years ago, and BB still hasn't been able to come up with a decent solution!!!

I currently use Repligo, which works great, but you can't edit documents and it costs $79/year.

Don't you think that if RIM had a good SDK that somebody would have developed a decent 3rd party app for this years ago? I guarantee that the iPhone will have a GREAT 3rd party app for this within months of launch.

I love almost everything about BBs (except this and the poor web and multimedia experience - which I use for business too). BB really needs to get on the ball and encourage 3rd party application development or they will be left behind. What Apple is doing is brilliant. Creating a great application development tool, giving it out for free, and letting every developer in the world take a crack at coming up with the next killer app. And Apple still gets 30% of everything they sell.

[numetheus]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by I8UB4

I have to say I agree with Numetheus on this one. A perfect example is the lack of a decent document viewer/editor on BBs. I switched from a Treo to BB about 4 years ago, and I have been distraught about the lack of a decent word/excel/pdf viewer and editor on BBs ever since. You talk about business applications, this is the most basic business application one needs. Opening an attachment on an email, saving it to a memory card, editing it, sending it back... I just upgraded to OS 4.5 on my curve, and it now includes Documents to Go - well, sort of. The fact is, until they upgrade the BIS software in N. America or a company upgrades to the latest BB Enterprise software for their server, Docs to Go is useless. You can't open a word document and properly read it, edit it or save it.

Keep in mind that I had a free version of Documents to Go on my Treo five years ago, and BB still hasn't been able to come up with a decent solution!!!

I currently use Repligo, which works great, but you can't edit documents and it costs $79/year.

Don't you think that if RIM had a good SDK that somebody would have developed a decent 3rd party app for this years ago? I guarantee that the iPhone will have a GREAT 3rd party app for this within months of launch.

I love almost everything about BBs (except this and the poor web and multimedia experience - which I use for business too). BB really needs to get on the ball and encourage 3rd party application development or they will be left behind. What Apple is doing is brilliant. Creating a great application development tool, giving it out for free, and letting every developer in the world take a crack at coming up with the next killer app. And Apple still gets 30% of everything they sell.

Exactly. While I love BlackBerry, I have to hand it to Apple though, they will get more developer support and high quality software made for it than BB.

RIM really needs to get off their asses and work on things that count, like a 1st rate SDK to compete with the iPhone toolchain so people come out and produce better software.

[PPCMD]

Didn't RIM offer a developer fund or something, if so what good is it if the tools to build them are lacking. I'm not a developer and I am buying less software for my BB than I did for my WIndowsMobile but that's a good thing. I'm not wasting money on junk. That said I could use some new and creative apps.

[test54]

RIM did a $150 million dollar fund for developers to create apps for BB. Not many details have come out since that announcement though. I would like to see what the split is in revenue.
I don't think the apps for BB will compete mainly because of the security of the platform, thats bound to make it tougher.

[numetheus]

Originally Posted by PPCMD

Didn't RIM offer a developer fund or something, if so what good is it if the tools to build them are lacking. I'm not a developer and I am buying less software for my BB than I did for my WIndowsMobile but that's a good thing. I'm not wasting money on junk. That said I could use some new and creative apps.

Yes. But a private investor announced the same amount (someone correct me on exact figure) during the Apple SDK release to develop applications for the iPhone. People have been lining up for iPhone development in droves from what I understand.

[test54]

RIM = $150 million fund for Developers
Apple = $100 million
Google = $10 Million

But it still comes down to what is the easiest and most profitable for the developers.

[numetheus]

Originally Posted by test54

RIM did a $150 million dollar fund for developers to create apps for BB. Not many details have come out since that announcement though. I would like to see what the split is in revenue.
I don't think the apps for BB will compete mainly because of the security of the platform, thats bound to make it tougher.

I am willing to bet that it will not improve the BB software economy much, if any. Its the development tools that make it harder to develop as high quality an app ... not the lack of money. Pour money into worth while RAD tools, and THAT will get people to want to develop for it.

[Frank Castle]

Umm the Blackberry has had a 3rd party document editor for like 2 years, it's not cheap but if you need it - dynoplex Eoffice. I have a few users who moved from a Treo and this is what they use. The fact that Blackberry will be giving a standard version of DocstoGo AND have the option to save files to the MicroSD (with policy control / encrytption might I add) is something the iphone will not have. I've never seen the appeal for document editing on a mobile device though, yeah some quick edits but viewing the attachments (which BB has had for at least 4 years) meets the needs of 95% of users.

Just what "apps" does Blackberry need to provide to make people happy? If your holding out for better games you will never be happy as that is not their driver. So like I said if gaming is your thing there are much better devices then a smartphone to do so.

Looking at what is available for Blackberry right now they have a number of lines covered often with more then one option:

IM
GPS mapping
Location Based Services
Media playback (I agree limited)
Expense Tracking
Time Tracking

Browse through handago and a number of apps are there, also mobile.blackberry.com is also adding new (free) applications monthly. I remember reading a great interview with a major Windows Mobile developer and at the time they were happy selling 50-80,000 copies. From what I've read about the AppStore there is a size limit and the majority will be entertainment focused, free or trial versions. I think what you'll see if models similar to what WorldMate Live! has done where a version with basic features is free and expanded functionality is either more or $ per month.

As the use of Blackberry continues to extend beyond it's core messaging you will see more consumer driven apps come to surface. It's not like it's difficult to develop for Blackberry, I assume most of the people on here don't use MDS Studio and Visual Basic. The majority of development for Blackberry has been internal to companies that are extending their own homegrown apps and websites.

[numetheus]

Originally Posted by test54

RIM = $150 million fund for Developers
Apple = $100 million
Google = $10 Million

But it still comes down to what is the easiest and most profitable for the developers.

Yeah I just rewatched the SDK presentation and fast forwarded to the fund part. Your right. Despite Android platform only getting $10 million in stimulus, I think it will do the best in application development ... especially in the open source arena. Apple will have a wealth of professional software, and BB will not change much.

[numetheus]

Originally Posted by jletendre

Umm the Blackberry has had a 3rd party document editor for like 2 years, it's not cheap but if you need it - dynoplex Eoffice. I have a few users who moved from a Treo and this is what they use. The fact that Blackberry will be giving a standard version of DocstoGo AND have the option to save files to the MicroSD (with policy control / encrytption might I add) is something the iphone will not have. I've never seen the appeal for document editing on a mobile device though, yeah some quick edits but viewing the attachments (which BB has had for at least 4 years) meets the needs of 95% of users.

Just what "apps" does Blackberry need to provide to make people happy? If your holding out for better games you will never be happy as that is not their driver. So like I said if gaming is your thing there are much better devices then a smartphone to do so.

Looking at what is available for Blackberry right now they have a number of lines covered often with more then one option:

IM
GPS mapping
Location Based Services
Media playback (I agree limited)
Expense Tracking
Time Tracking

Browse through handago and a number of apps are there, also mobile.blackberry.com is also adding new (free) applications monthly. I remember reading a great interview with a major Windows Mobile developer and at the time they were happy selling 50-80,000 copies. From what I've read about the AppStore there is a size limit and the majority will be entertainment focused, free or trial versions. I think what you'll see if models similar to what WorldMate Live! has done where a version with basic features is free and expanded functionality is either more or $ per month.

As the use of Blackberry continues to extend beyond it's core messaging you will see more consumer driven apps come to surface. It's not like it's difficult to develop for Blackberry, I assume most of the people on here don't use MDS Studio and Visual Basic. The majority of development for Blackberry has been internal to companies that are extending their own homegrown apps and websites.

I seriously doubt that you will find many that have been with each platform for a long time, argue that BB software is as high a quality as WM or even Palm. Its not about the numbers of apps. Its about the quality. And in the BB world, it sucks. I can name TONS of personal financial software for WM, and some packages that have won awards and have features similar to full fledged desktop software. For BB what do we have? Its all simplistic, unwieldy, and look like crap. Absolutely NO quality personal finance software exists for BB that can compete in usability, looks, and ease of use. NONE. And the same example can be found across the board.

[numetheus]

Originally Posted by jletendre

Umm the Blackberry has had a 3rd party document editor for like 2 years, it's not cheap but if you need it - dynoplex Eoffice. I have a few users who moved from a Treo and this is what they use. The fact that Blackberry will be giving a standard version of DocstoGo AND have the option to save files to the MicroSD (with policy control / encrytption might I add) is something the iphone will not have. I've never seen the appeal for document editing on a mobile device though, yeah some quick edits but viewing the attachments (which BB has had for at least 4 years) meets the needs of 95% of users.

I can't believe your using the Eoffice app as an example of quality. That thing looks shitty compared to software you get on WM and Palm. It looks old and backwards. The only reason people spend that much for it ... is that ITS THE ONLY REAL CHOICE. In WM world, there are multiple programs that rival eoffice in usability and looks. Eoffice is the PERFECT example of why the development tools in BB sucks. It just looks like an old DESQVIEW-X or Tandy DESKMATE application put on a tiny screen!

[Dawg]

but the iphone cant do something as simple as cut and paste and its supposed to compete in the business market. Come on. You want all these advanced things and it cant do simple things.

[numetheus]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by Dawg

but the iphone cant do something as simple as cut and paste and its supposed to compete in the business market. Come on. You want all these advanced things and it cant do simple things.

Its easy to forgive the simple things when it does the more advanced ones better. I need not only a desktop browsing experience, but I need it to happen comfortably. That is something BB can't do very well.

[ArgonNJ]

Originally Posted by 208GadgetGeek

The BOLD will blast the 3G iPhone out of the water.

Not if the response on Digg is any indication.

iPhone was Dugg. Way Dugg. | popFAIL

I would bet the house that the Bold won't get half this exposure.

[stranger]

Originally Posted by Dawg

but the iphone cant do something as simple as cut and paste and its supposed to compete in the business market. Come on. You want all these advanced things and it cant do simple things.

sniff sniff do i smell a cheap shot?
the whole thread was talking about 3rd party apps and development funds and then this random fact shows up. bitter much?

Blackberries have a horrible media. how can it compete in the consumer market with it. Please. it has all these advanced features and cant do these simple ones even in its "consumer" products?
(stupid and random i know. hate it dont you)

I hate more than anything on forums i visit is random, off-topic bashing of the competition. lets stay on topic and be reasonable.

[I8UB4]

Originally Posted by jletendre

Umm the Blackberry has had a 3rd party document editor for like 2 years, it's not cheap but if you need it - dynoplex Eoffice. I have a few users who moved from a Treo and this is what they use. The fact that Blackberry will be giving a standard version of DocstoGo AND have the option to save files to the MicroSD (with policy control / encrytption might I add) is something the iphone will not have. I've never seen the appeal for document editing on a mobile device though, yeah some quick edits but viewing the attachments (which BB has had for at least 4 years) meets the needs of 95% of users.

Just what "apps" does Blackberry need to provide to make people happy? If your holding out for better games you will never be happy as that is not their driver. So like I said if gaming is your thing there are much better devices then a smartphone to do so.

Looking at what is available for Blackberry right now they have a number of lines covered often with more then one option:

IM
GPS mapping
Location Based Services
Media playback (I agree limited)
Expense Tracking
Time Tracking

Browse through handago and a number of apps are there, also mobile.blackberry.com is also adding new (free) applications monthly. I remember reading a great interview with a major Windows Mobile developer and at the time they were happy selling 50-80,000 copies. From what I've read about the AppStore there is a size limit and the majority will be entertainment focused, free or trial versions. I think what you'll see if models similar to what WorldMate Live! has done where a version with basic features is free and expanded functionality is either more or $ per month.

As the use of Blackberry continues to extend beyond it's core messaging you will see more consumer driven apps come to surface. It's not like it's difficult to develop for Blackberry, I assume most of the people on here don't use MDS Studio and Visual Basic. The majority of development for Blackberry has been internal to companies that are extending their own homegrown apps and websites.

Um, I'm sorry, but EOffice is AWFUL. I tried it for a while and was shocked at how bad it is. It has a lot of functionality, but the UI is so poor, it was terrible to use.

Just look at the demos on Steve Jobs' keynote address of the apps that have been developed in 2 months since the release of the SDK. Now, I don't know how many of these work as well as their demos, but eventually they will. And not all of them are games or entertainment. It is unbelievable how much further advanced they are than the BB apps, and how well they integrate with other functions of the phone (browser, GPS, email, calendar, contacts, etc.). I'm not saying that they are there yet, but they are certainly on the right track.

Again, I've never used an iPhone, except in the store, and I'm a loyal BB user. The touchscreen typing has been the deal breaker for me. However, I look at what Apple is developing, and can't help but think that RIM better get on the ball, because eventually Apple will figure out the typing and the email.

[rachamphetamine]

Originally Posted by stranger

sniff sniff do i smell a cheap shot?
the whole thread was talking about 3rd party apps and development funds and then this random fact shows up. bitter much?

Blackberries have a horrible media. how can it compete in the consumer market with it. Please. it has all these advanced features and cant do these simple ones even in its "consumer" products?
(stupid and random i know. hate it dont you)

I hate more than anything on forums i visit is random, off-topic bashing of the competition. lets stay on topic and be reasonable.

I agree that BB media is horrible. However, I would also feel safe in offering the generalization that most (not all) people also have an iPod. Both are relatively small devices that are easy to carry around without major pain since they are each pocket sized and to my knowledge, pants have multiple pockets stitched into them. If you are looking to integrate both, then yes, the iPhone is a better device for the purpose of media.

However, I disagree that this "whole thread was talking about 3rd party apps and development funds". No, it was talking about whether people were more interested in the Bold or the iPhone. Copy/paste is important when you're in the business world and you need it. Heck, I use it a lot to copy inane things on my Blackberry and I don't use it for anything besides my personal phone. Sure, I don't use the copy/paste functions much, but when you need it, it's a time saver as opposed to typing something all the way out again.

The iPhone is a consumer device. There is no argument there. Therefore, it can be expected to trump the Blackberry in that area, since Blackberrys(ies?) were designed first and foremost for the purpose of business and have only recently (generalization) branched out into consumer devices. Blackberrys have a way to go in catching up when there is a high amount of work put into the iPhone to make it a consumer-friendly, easily accessible device. As mentioned before, they both need work in different areas.

That being said, it's not a cheap shot at the competition to nitpick on something the iPhone can't do (copy/paste) any more than it is bashing to pick on something the Blackberry phones aren't good at (media). Numetheus and others have mentioned an important point - customers should pick which one is more suitable to their personal tastes. There are fans of both, and fans will clash. It happens and if it's too irritating, don't read the thread.

[plasticities]

Originally Posted by stranger

sniff sniff do i smell a cheap shot?
the whole thread was talking about 3rd party apps and development funds and then this random fact shows up. bitter much?

Blackberries have a horrible media. how can it compete in the consumer market with it. Please. it has all these advanced features and cant do these simple ones even in its "consumer" products?
(stupid and random i know. hate it dont you)

I hate more than anything on forums i visit is random, off-topic bashing of the competition. lets stay on topic and be reasonable.

not really, considering there are phones far "worse" than the bold and iphone that can easily copy and paste. it's not off topic when the thread in its entirety is comparing the two phones.

[Frank Castle]

OK with my limited background coding I think your confusion with how things appear and WHAT IS POSSIBLE are a little skewed.

Obviously the iphone will be easier to program for as it's based on OS X, it also started with much more processing power so how can you expect previous BB models to compete hardware to hardware? Up to the 8000 series models they didn't have much power in terms of CPU/Memory/video resolution so yeah the UI and graphics WILL be basic. I have sat through many developer courses across platforms and content is your goal. I'll take functionality over eye candy anyday of the week but if you see a shiny object and follow more power to you.

I mentioned eoffice because at the time it was the main option and someone had commented it wasn't possible on BB, when it is .. poor UI/visually challenged aside. I believe going forward there will be a few office document editor type programs with one being free and part of OS 4.5.

I think this time next year after the Bold and OS 4.5 have been out and more iphone apps have had time to grow it will be a good benchmark to compare what software is available, how useful it is depending on your needs.