[test54]

yes, but tell that to the families who lost their loved one in the mines, oil fields, rail yards while the Barons -Vanderbilt, Morgan, Canegie, Flagler were becoming so rich that their families to this day are incredibly wealthy.

that brings me to the Kennedy's, as said before they became rich like these guys by controlling an industry -Scotch. They over the years though have turned to Charity and now are one of the most beloved families in New England to alot of people because of the millions they raise and donate every year. But no doubt that Joe Kennedy used alot of favors and bought alot of public officials in his lifetime.

sometimes it does take some corruption / exploitation to advance a society.

[bemelo56]

I saw this idea on the "Verizon Haggling Tips" post. VZW sometimes offers like $100 - $150 off the price of smartphones if you purchase a data plan. Their tip was to then call the next day and switch to a different plan since data plans are not contractual.

Thoughts?

[teamcrn]

Originally Posted by test54

yes, but tell that to the families who lost their loved one in the mines, oil fields, rail yards while the Barons -Vanderbilt, Morgan, Canegie, Flagler were becoming so rich that their families to this day are incredibly wealthy.

that brings me to the Kennedy's, as said before they became rich like these guys by controlling an industry -Scotch. They over the years though have turned to Charity and now are one of the most beloved families in New England to alot of people because of the millions they raise and donate every year. But no doubt that Joe Kennedy used alot of favors and bought alot of public officials in his lifetime.

sometimes it does take some corruption / exploitation to advance a society.

I agree that the corruption and greed of some have advanced our country to the great nation it is today but at what cost? My Original point was as American we some time Push our moral values as being the absolute best and should be followed at all time. The USA as a whole hasnxxx8217;t always been moral in there action. I used the Native American and slavery as examples of the US losing its moral compass for financial gain. I and my folks had this very conversation last night. Though our system is flaw it is ours and it seems to be the best one around.

[test54]

I dont know if i would use the word "flawed", its more that no system is perfect because no person is perfect so the best you can is put as many checks in place to protect each other from each other.
I think you point about the Naive american is valid but it was at that time something that the people found morally acceptable. And that is where the difference comes in about culture & morality of its time and place. If you were in the South in the 1850's your view of African Americans would be different than someone from lets say NYC, those people thought they had good morals but their culture let them down.
As times change so do the culture and morals. I agree that US does sometimes preach that its our way or its not right, and thats unfortunate.

However your last statement can be viewed as pushing our culture on others as you state that our system is the best one around, however other wold say that as you stated before their is too much corruption.

Its really a no win argument, people like what they like and they will always feel their way is the best way, just look at the iphone vs. blackberry arguments...

[teamcrn]

Originally Posted by test54

I dont know if i would use the word "flawed", its more that no system is perfect because no person is perfect so the best you can is put as many checks in place to protect each other from each other.
I think you point about the Naive american is valid but it was at that time something that the people found morally acceptable. And that is where the difference comes in about culture vs. morality. If you were in the South in the 1850's your view of African Americans would be different than someone from lets say NYC, those people thought they had good morals but their culture let them down.
As times change so do the culture and morals. I agree that US does sometimes preach that its our way or its not right, and thats unfortunate.

However your last statement can be viewed as pushing our culture on others as you state that our system is the best one around, however other wold say that as you stated before their is too much corruption.

Its really a no win argument, people like what they like and they will always feel their way is the best way, just look at the iphone vs. blackberry arguments...

Very true. i think im going to buy an ipod touch

[JSanders]

Some people prefer Chicken Salad.

But they are troublemakers usually.

[test54]

Yeah those troublemakers think they can say anything when they have protection but then they lose their heads...

BTW, good book on the change of the US from a respected Republic to an Economic empire, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins.
Listening on my i**** while waiting at the airport right now and posting i guess.

[daphne]

Originally Posted by test54

Although I always do follow the theories that: "Money Corrupts" and "Absolute Power Corrupts"

I would change that to greed corrupts. If there was no greed in the world, it would be a different place.

Originally Posted by LunkHead

Wrote the WEP key down and he is still using it....

Heh -- I thought of that too after I posted.

[test54]

your right, its really greed not necessarily money.

[jsconyers]

Loving the new avatar Lunk! the only thing that could possibly improve it is if he were holding an iPhone or eating a chicken salad sandwich. Perhaps maybe both?

[mriff]

You're right. Chuck Norris eats iPhones for lunch.

[LunkHead]

I love everyone today! Can we have a BBF hug?????

[JSanders]

Not until you please snuff that tail out and take off that hideous mask.

[silimtao]

Originally Posted by JSanders

True. Good example is the industrial revolution of the late 1800 in the US was fueled by greed and "largess" of the huge monopolies (the railroads, steel, shipping, etc) put our nation in the right place industrially and economically to become the superpower needed to help preserve democracy and free much of Europe in the early 1900s.

Are you suggesting that "the ends justify the means"? I certainly have no intentions of coming in here to get the fires burning again, but I had to ask that question. If you or anyone answers, "it depends", than I'd say you're practicing "situational ethics". And I find that to be the height of hypocrisy. I'd say it's probably fair to say that most of us here has fudged a bit on our taxes, lied while calling in sick for work (I did today- see my post about Profile Scheduler hosing my BB), etc. I'd like to coin a new term for those of us who are obsessed with our BBs- I assume Crackheads has been used, so I'll propose, Blackheads, for those of us with BBs. But I digress..

I see both points of view posted here, and there certainly are many areas where I disagree strongly, as much as I agree with other beliefs. Many shades of gray. Is it ethical for me to download MP3s from Limewire- but only for songs I have CDs for, but too lazy to rip? But then we'd have to debate the contradictory laws governing The Fair Use Act vs. Digital Rights Management.

No, I don't condone stealing, and no, I don't believe this country was built on dishonesty (though I believe there's a whole lot of it going on right now). I guess my point is, often what we do *does*, in fact "depends"- that doesn't necessarily make it "morally" right (which I think is highly subjective)- as I believe Lunkhead said, it's ok to steal some bread for a starving child- if that's the case, then is Lunkhead condoning thievery? I think not. My point is, I think one should never say, "Stealing is wrong! But...". It's the "but" factor that makes talking about morality/ethics such a slippery subject. As a card carrying liberal, I'd love to see public hangings for pedophiles, rapists, and murderers...but killing is wrong, right? Well, that's my 2 cents.

Bottom line, if you can honestly look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day, and be satisfied with who you are, I'd say you're doing ok. We're all imperfect to some degree. It's simply called being human.

The real point of my post is to ask- will my Pearl record video?

[LunkHead]

Originally Posted by silimtao

The real point of my post is to ask- will my Pearl record video?

Hahahahaha... Please use the search button!

[silimtao]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

Hahahahaha... Please use the search button!

Lunkhead's flaming me! Stop the madness!

[LunkHead]

I am not a BBF Moderator....

[LunkHead]

Originally Posted by JSanders

Some people prefer Chicken Salad.

But they are troublemakers usually.

Why you hatin' on chicken salad sandwiches????????

I love chicken salad sandwiches....

[jsconyers]

Originally Posted by silimtao

As a card carrying liberal, I'd love to see public hangings for pedophiles, rapists, and murderers...but killing is wrong, right?

Who is to justify what is wrong and what is right? There is no wrong and there is no right, there is popular belief.

[test54]

silimtao,

I see where your going and it does come down to personal choices but I think the mirror comment is not going to be right. You look at some of the most evil people in history and they felt that what they were doing was absolutely justified. History is filled with people that made choices for what was best for them and not for the people. When you leave people in power to make moral judgments without having to answer to anyone then that person will act for whats best in their eyes (in the mirror) but if as jsconyers says you use popular belief it will be the better choice, hence Corp. boards, Congress, ect.

Part of the country was definitely built on exploitation, stealing and dishonesty but its not a major part. As discussed in the thread there were times where morally these actions were accepted.

And yes sometimes the end does definitely justify the means. It is sometimes tough to hear but their are many wartime examples, and famous examples where tough choices were made to right a wrong to to make the country prosper.
Im leaving the examples out because thy would likely fan the flames in here.