[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

CNET took a poll and posted the results. Asked what features on the iPhone most impressed. Interesting that 38% said "blah, it's just a phone."

http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/bbcnetiphone.jpg

Yep, and according to the analysts, those 9% that picked "Full-fledged Mac OS X" have been confused by the half-truths during the marketing launch presentation. Its NOT "full-fledged Mac OS X" any more than Windows Mobile is "full-fledged Windows XP" and you can't bring over Mac applications to it any more than you can bring over Windows apps to your Motorola Q or Treo.

Also, the electrical engineer in me leads me to predict that the "proximity sensor" picked by 2% that shuts down the screen "when in proximity to your ear (head)" will become a huge frustration as I'll be shocked if it can reliably distinguish between proximity with all sizes of ears (heads) and proximity of all sizes of hands - and you DON'T want it turning off when you get your hand close to it!

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

Today was the first time I saw a device that not only made me want to give up my 8700, but made it seem like something from the distant past.

See, I just don't see this at all. I suppose it is a subjective opinion, but I have yet to see anything on the iPhone that got me as excited as my Clié which actually WAS from the distant past (at least in electronics terms). What, is it the silly time consuming slide in, slide out animations that make you say the BB looks like it is from the distant past? Is it the big screen consuming fonts that make you say the BB looks like it is from the distant past? I know it can't be the design of the exterior of the device, since it practically looks like it was designed by the same person who did the Pearl and 8800. Seriously, I'm not being defensive here. If you read some of my older posts, I don't even like the BB all that much, and am constantly looking for something better. This isn't envy talking, it is honestly someone who doesn't even begin to understand what is so 'futuristic' about this phone that seems more or less like a throwback to the PDAs that were out a few years ago.

Originally Posted by tfaz1

Organizer: I love Apple's productivity suite of iCal and Address Book. It's simple, powerful and built on open standards (unlike Outlook). iPhone syncs with these applications, which is good enough for me. I don't see any real advantage the BlackBerry has over the iPhone in this regard.

Honestly, I think it pretty much goes without saying that anyone who uses a Mac is going to at least want to get this. However, the device is going to be a flop if it only sells to people who already own a Mac. The real question is how well does it sync with the PIM tools most people use? Is it going to sync with Outlook? How about ACT? What about the new calender and email in Vista? To be any kind of success, this thing is going to have to play nice with Windows, and all the complaining about how Microsoft doesn't support "open standards" isn't going to change that. Right now the BB, Windows Mobile, and Palm sync very well with the apps people actually use, is the same going to be true of the iPhone?

Originally Posted by tfaz1

Internet: iPhone is the clear winner. It renders full web pages beautifully, both in landscape and portrait mode. It's great to browse with my BlackBerry in a pinch, but it's painful. Most modern websites look terrible on a BlackBerry, period. I personally saw a number of sites load on the iPhone and can say it's the best browsing experience of any smartphone on the market.

No, you saw a demonstration of how it is supposed to browse. The thing hasn't even been tested by the FCC yet, so if they were really browsing web pages on it, then they are in legal trouble. Let's wait and see how good that web browsing experience is once it is actually going over EDGE. The Sony PSP looked like it was going to be great for browsing the web, back when it was just a demonstration, the trick is in making it actually work. That said, I think your claim that it is the best of any smartphone begs the question of what are you calling a smartphone? Some of the VGA Windows Mobile devices run a full browser at VGA resolution, I doubt the iPhone is going to beat that. The Sony UX and OQO can run full versions of IE or Firefox, or any browser, at 1024x600 and 800x400 respectively, and I KNOW the iPhone can't beat that! Does it beat the BB? It would be hard not to, the BB has an awful browser!

Originally Posted by tfaz1

Also, let's not forget the handy WiFi card which, in addition to faster speeds, will provide iPhone users with the ability to use VoIP when it range of a wireless access point. For those who's cell phone is their *only* phone (see Apple's target demo) this is going to be a HUGE success. Practically free minutes when at home, the dorm or your neighborhood internet cafe.

Same is true of the BB 8800, which will have been out months by the time the iPhone hits the shelves, and it is true of most of the Windows Mobile devices that are out now.

Originally Posted by tfaz1

Price: A lot of people poo-poo'ed the original iPod as being overpriced (5GB for $400). You could have bought a 20GB Creative jukebox for $500 at the time.

And many people also like to forget that the original iPod was a complete flop, selling only 100,000 units. It wasn't until the second generation iPods, and even more so the cheaper third generation iPods that sales really started to explode.

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I had a nice chuckle when I saw someone try to compare the iPhone to the Dell PDA. "But, the Dell does stuff too..." Yeah, the iPod isn't the only media player on the market. It isn't even the cheapest. It's just the best. I expect the iPhone to have a similar impact.

Why, everything Apple does isn't magically gold, just because Apple did it. Their digital camera was a flop, their game console was a flop, the Newton was a flop, their new AppleTV is a joke, their first attempt at a phone was a flop, they do make mistakes. I actually think it is pretty foolhardy to assume that a company (any company) is going to beat everyone in the highly competitive mobile phone market on their first try at a mobile OS. Nokia, Motorola, Microsoft, Palm, and even RIM had to go through many iterations before they had devices that were even kind of appealing to customers when it came to developing converged products. I don't see any reason to think that Apple has somehow gathered together a ninja team of mobile phone designers that are more capable than the combined talent of the entire industry put together. It is a leap of faith that I do not think is rational, but rather emotional.

[apple85]

if it's not for you it's not no need to come to this thread and get all of us looking forward to it's release in a huff and an arguement. i think deep down we all know that no phone is ultimately PERFECT and do everything we need want. some of us are just more believers and as apple users appreciate things that work!

[tfaz1]

60% of those polled say they liked at least some aspect of the new iPhone, with 29% saying they loved it. The remaining 29% didn't hate it either, they just don't care about cell phones. I think that accurately reflects the cell phone market.

That's 3 out of 5 people who like the iPhone. Pretty good numbers for a product that isn't even FCC approved.

[dapoktan]

I dont think Apple is planning on putting the iPhone into competition with the Blackberries.. blackberries are MUCHHHH more business oriented, with its funcitons and form reflecting that..

Alot of people have gone against a camera blackberry cuz they simply cant use one at work.

This is clearly aimed at the iPod crowd who also want to use it as a phone/camera/pvp... which it does impressively in the demo, with a pretty form factor that is the size of a Q, with a larger widescreen display...

As for hte guy that said you couldnt email while on the phone, why not? if on wifi at the same time?

[tfaz1]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

And many people also like to forget that the original iPod was a complete flop, selling only 100,000 units.

I was going to dispute some of your other points, but after that statement, I realized I was dealing with a crazy person. The original iPod was a huge success, even though only 3% of the market could use it. It was Mac-only.

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

It wasn't until the second generation iPods, and even more so the cheaper third generation iPods that sales really started to explode.

I wonder what was so different about the 2nd and 3rd generation iPods? Oh, that's right. They were compatible with Windows XP.

...and I don't think Apple can do no wrong even though, yes, I am a Mac user. I did attend the Expo today and I did see the iPhone used in person. I saw it render web pages, browse and play media, manage contacts and communications. It's very, very slick. Might be expensive, I'll give you that. But people are going to want one.

[mccraney4]

Originally Posted by krad

you make some good points... but your not an apple consumer......

apple consumers have more than one powebook or mac book... These are people who spend top dollar on apple products like there hd displays and what not...

10 million units will sell out in 1 day.

it is simple...

ipod = 300
telephone = 200
500$

now say double the memory like dell commercial for 100 bucks...

$600. genius

This was the innovation i was *****ing about the other day.

The iphone will replace the ipod in 2 years..

we will see different versions of the iphone.... large and small like video and nano... wait and see.

I personally will wait for the 3rd generation... like i did with the ipod.


Your last sentence i think is the opposite....

I just had 20 people crowded around my pc to watch the updates of what the phone can do... and everyone of them said they hate the small buttons on phones.... every one!!!!

No doubt and i am so glad someone spoke the truth here, too many MAC haters in here, I will be buying 4 of these, yes 4, 1 for myself 1 for the wife and 1 for each of my kids, I currently own a Macbook Pro and a Powerbook the wife has a nice new Macbook Pro and her Powerbook and my 9 and 11 year olds have a new Macbook each so dont think that no one will pay the price for this phone, the Apple consumer will buy no matter how jeaolus you are of this product, and by the way check the nextel price of a BB 7520 $449 and the IPHONE is over priced? Think again, quit being jealous and just admit you are gonna buy one....

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by apple85

if it's not for you it's not no need to come to this thread and get all of us looking forward to it's release in a huff and an arguement. i think deep down we all know that no phone is ultimately PERFECT and do everything we need want. some of us are just more believers and as apple users appreciate things that work!

This is a BlackBerry forum. With just that fact one should expect lively discussion about competing products.

Far as I know, if one wants to engage in chit chat with other "looking forward to the iPhone" folks, one should hang out in an Apple users' forum.

I for one enjoy the colloquy in this thread. I don't think posters should be expected to talk nice about the iPhone or keep their mouths shut.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I was going to dispute some of your other points, but after that statement, I realized I was dealing to a crazy person.

Now, now, that was uncalled for.

Everyone has been talking professionally and with respect. No need for saying in public how you feel.

[tfaz1]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

Now, now, that was uncalled for. http://www.heartinsanfrancisco.com/anifingerwag.gif

Everyone has been talking professionally and with respect. No need for saying in public how you feel.

Sorry, you're right. When someone says black is white, that's hard to ignore. My apologies.

[apple85]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

This is a BlackBerry forum. With just that fact one should expect lively discussion about competing products.

Far as I know, if one wants to engage in chit chat with other "looking forward to the iPhone" folks, one should hang out in an Apple users' forum.

I for one enjoy the colloquy in this thread. I don't think posters should be expected to talk nice about the iPhone or keep their mouths shut.

BUT on the other hand this is a HANDHELD Section and it specifically says NO Blackberry discussion. I can send Guess a PM and ask him to write it in BOLD if it needs more clarification...

Straight from the web page
HandHeld Forum
Discuss any handheld Devices, Gadgets, etc. in this dedicated forum. No BlackBerry Discussions within.

I think if you disagree with Guess creating a sub forum for people to discuss NON blackberry related material you should take it up with him. Some of us like doing our business in one spot and with him creating these sub forums we can.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by apple85

BUT on the other hand this is a HANDHELD Section and it specifically says NO Blackberry discussion. I can send Guess a PM and ask him to write it in BOLD if it needs more clarification...

Straight from the web page
HandHeld Forum
Discuss any handheld Devices, Gadgets, etc. in this dedicated forum. No BlackBerry Discussions within.

What does that mean? You are going to go tell teacher? Pfftttt.. My legs are turning to noodles.

I think the rule means that members should not post questions, comments, and how to on BB devices covered in other sections. If someone mentions a BB's features in comparison to a competing handheld, I don't think that's breaking the rules.

Besides, the discussion in here has not been about BlackBerry devices. Conversation had been centered on the iPHone, both positive and negative.

I don't see in the rules that it says all posts have to be pro iPhone.

[mccraney4]

Originally Posted by lmlloyd

You know, I have a question for all the people singing the praises of the iPhone.

Why don't you already have a Windows Mobile, or UMPC device?

I mean, 90% of the features being touted as 'revolutionary' have been on Windows Mobile, and TabletPCs for years now. Hell, the TabletPCs just announced at CES have an interface better than this Apple multi-touch, which lets you mix a touchscreen with an actual pressure sensitive Wacom digitizer (a technology that, humorously enough, Lenovo is also calling MultiTouch, and has been for months)! All of the TabletPC and UMPC devices actually do run full Windows apps, and are really running a full version of Windows.

I just fail to understand how this one device has suddenly caused you to see the light of the whole Windows Mobile design philosophy, when you have stayed away from it for years.

Is it just because it has the Apple brand on it? For years now I have heard people loudly declaring that people just don't want the Windows Mobile style devices, and how TabletPC/UMPC is just a joke, yet as soon as Apple says these are desirable design features, people start saying they have revolutionized the industry.

Because like all others Apple users we have been waiting for Apple to build the IPHONE thats why, and we refuse to use windows, simple as that....

[apple85]

Well I read it differently I see some protection from you insane blackberry carrying loving fanatics from coming in here and creating a war from a product thats been out for not even 24 hours. Honestly I don't think anyone can argue a device that hasn't even passed FCC yet and can't be sold (According to Apples web site). I carry a BB8703e as well and love it BUT (and everyone has a BUT regarding their device) Oh I quit I just give up I'm to tired to try and type anymore. I think everyone should just go by what I said earlier, let us fanatics that are excited about this have our day and destory it tomorrow or something. Pick apart a product and it's specs that you've never even held, used and base you opinion on from previous products with similar specs for another time. I'm sure Steve knows that this won't kill the blackberry following and that should this fail it could hurt Apple badly. I can't even put a straight setence together anymore my eyes are going cross... Cya

PS i'm not going to run to the teacher but obviously we understand what he's written as a description differently. I think this banter back and forth between everyone has crossed the line a couple times only to narrowly slide back in to a normal discussion. This is like ugly bastard step children bickering.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I was going to dispute some of your other points, but after that statement, I realized I was dealing with a crazy person. The original iPod was a huge success, even though only 3% of the market could use it. It was Mac-only.

Ah, I see, anyone who doesn't subscribe to whatever your odd qualified definition of success is, is a crazy person.

Sales of the iPod didn't start ramping up until Q3 2003 (when the $299 iPod came out), and didn't start selling in the millions until Q4 2004. You can call me crazy all you want, but if selling 54,000 a quarter is your bar for a successful product, then I guess Creative, Iriver, and most of the other digital media players are huge successes too!

Do remember, you are the one who claimed that the iPod was a huge sucess even though it was "too expensive." All I'm pointing out is that its real sucess came years after it was launched, and after the price was dropped, and they were on their third or fourth generation of the device.

My point was that people keep arguing that since the iPod turned out to be a success, then everything Apple ever does has to be a success. That is clearly not true, since plenty of companies (including your beloved Apple) have followed up sucessful products with flops.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by mccraney4

Because like all others Apple users we have been waiting for Apple to build the IPHONE thats why, and we refuse to use windows, simple as that....

That makes sense. There is definitely a core fan base that Apple knows it can count on, those who buy Apple and nothing else. For them, the iPhone is whip cream on top of the Apple sundae.

I have a friend who hates PC and has Apple everything. Been that way for 20 years. He has a BB, but will be interesting to see if he gets the iPhone.

Like I said earlier, Apple sure makes cool looking products. I have an IBM ThinkPad and every time I go to CompUSA I stop by and look at the Apple notebooks just because they look so nice. But never have been able to make the switch, notwithstanding how ugly my ThinkPad looks.

[SanFrancisco]

Just In and then I'm signing off.

On the news they said words to the effect:

"iPhone is not the official name of the phone yet. Cisco has owned the 'iPhone' name for six years. Apple is in the process of finalizing licensing rights with Cisco at this time."

Interesting. They must have been pretty certain to get the licensing rights to let Steve call it the iPhone at MacWorld, etc.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by mccraney4

Because like all others Apple users we have been waiting for Apple to build the IPHONE thats why, and we refuse to use windows, simple as that....

A straight, honest answer, that I can totally respect. I am the same way with Palm these days, I just won't use a Palm device. No matter how good their device might look, I swore them off.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by tfaz1

I was going to dispute some of your other points, but after that statement, I realized I was dealing with a crazy person. The original iPod was a huge success, even though only 3% of the market could use it. It was Mac-only.

Instead of stooping to juvenile name-calling, you might reflect for a moment that its rather illogical to call *anything* a "huge success" if its design was so short-sighted as to ignore and be incompatible with 97% of its potential market.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by mccraney4

Think again, quit being jealous and just admit you are gonna buy one....

No, see, nobody here is 'hating' on Macs. In fact, there has only been even passing mention of Macs. What a very small few of us are arguing against, is this almost fundamental and almost religious belief that you have expressed quite succinctly here. A lot of us like discussing handheld technology, and handheld devices. As such, we have seen a lot of them come and go. Now here is a product from Apple, and in the course of discussing it just like any other device, come people like you insinuating, or flat-out accusing people of having either hidden agendas, or mental defects, because they don't buy the Apple company line without any critical thought.

Did it occur to you for a second, that maybe someone really might not be impressed with what they have seen so far? No hate, no jealousy, no hidden agenda, just a profound lack of any real sense of innovation.

If you like it, great for you, but for some of us "I won't buy from any other company if Apple makes a competing product, because Apple rocks" just isn't a compelling reason. I fail to see why you would be offended that we want to voice our opinions on the device.