[Al Rubin]

Hi,
I own a BB Bold 9700. I don't have a service pack (I'm currently in China).
I downloaded gmail application to be able to deal with my gmail account.
At first it didn't work, and said each time I tried to see my new emails something like:
"This application needs a working data-connection to perform. Please check...."

Then, for some reason it started working great! Notifying me if I have new emails, etc.
(Sometimes I still got the same error message above. Then I would re-boot my BB, which fixed the problem and gmail would start working again great.)

However, three weeks ago the error message shows up consistently when I try running gmail, and even re-booting won't help. Nothing.

Someone, please help!

[Motorcycle Mama]

You need a BlackBerry Data Plan.

[Al Rubin]

Thanks for the note, but as I wrote above, I used the gmail application before *without* a data plan.
I think this is the whole point of the Gmail application. You don't use the OS built-in "Messages" functionality to send email, rather an add-on application.

Also, note that I can surf the internet without data-plan. It should be the same with the Gmail application.

Do you know what might went wrong?

[Motorcycle Mama]

Things change. The carrier might have temporarily had you set up with data and then corrected it.

All the Google BlackBerry apps require a BlackBerry Data plan. It's the way they are written. Hence the message you are getting that the application needs a working data connection.

[Al Rubin]

Thanks. This is indeed possible.

I think this is a quite sad state of affairs that RIM or the carriers force clients to have a service plan in order to access this simple functionality.

[zaksdad]

Why shouldn't carriers force and charge you for the "simple functionality" for access to data and internet? It's worth something to you and others so you should pay for it.

[Al Rubin]

To Mr. Zaksdad,

1. The practical normative answer: Because I paid a lot of money for this phone, *independently* of any phone company. Hence, it is highly unethical to limit deliberately a simple EXISTING functionality in a machine, which I paid for, just to force me to pay much more.

2. The ideological answer: you have not answered my question or reservations at all. I have said that this things of affairs is "sad", or "undeserving". What your answer showed is merely that some company X has an interest to get more money from Y. But this is obvious.

[devnull]

Originally Posted by Al Rubin

To Mr. Zaksdad,

1. The practical normative answer: Because I paid a lot of money for this phone, *independently* of any phone company. Hence, it is highly unethical to limit deliberately a simple EXISTING functionality in a machine, which I paid for, just to force me to pay much more.

I may be misunderstanding. Your statement is akin to paying for an expensive computer and then getting upset because you can't use the web without a first purchasing internet service.

So you paid alot of money for the phone. You still have to pay for services.

I just don't get where you're coming from.

[aiharkness]

The fact that the BlackBerry is designed for and intended to be used with BlackBerry/RIM services is continually lost on people. And the fact that the BlackBerry allows a user to install and use third-party apps and services does not alter the BlackBerry's raison d'être.

In my experience, apps that require access to the RIM network are using functions of the network to increase functionality and add value to the app. I don't know specifically about the app referred to here, but I would not assume the answer is so simple as a scam to extract more money from the customer.

Bottom line, if you want a fully open system, find one and use it.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[Motorcycle Mama]

Originally Posted by Al Rubin

To Mr. Zaksdad,

1. The practical normative answer: Because I paid a lot of money for this phone, *independently* of any phone company. Hence, it is highly unethical to limit deliberately a simple EXISTING functionality in a machine, which I paid for, just to force me to pay much more.

2. The ideological answer: you have not answered my question or reservations at all. I have said that this things of affairs is "sad", or "undeserving". What your answer showed is merely that some company X has an interest to get more money from Y. But this is obvious.

I paid a lot of money (independently of any gasoline company) for my car, too.

That doesn't mean that I should be able to get gasoline and use my car, which I paid for, without paying for their service of providing fuel to run the car.

[stevew]

Rotflmao

[Al Rubin]

Originally Posted by devnull

I may be misunderstanding. Your statement is akin to paying for an expensive computer and then getting upset because you can't use the web without a first purchasing internet service.

So you paid alot of money for the phone. You still have to pay for services.

I just don't get where you're coming from.

It is different, because I already paid for the network on my sim card and my call/data time. I just don't have a plan because of coincidental reasons.
So it's more like buying a computer, then an internet service, and then the provider somehow manages to block your access to Gmail deliberately, unless you pay him more.
This is surely dubious on the ethical level.

[Al Rubin]

Originally Posted by Motorcycle Mama

I paid a lot of money (independently of any gasoline company) for my car, too.

That doesn't mean that I should be able to get gasoline and use my car, which I paid for, without paying for their service of providing fuel to run the car.

The analogy is wrong. A gasoline is an existing asset that you have to get into your car. You have to purchase it. Here, as far as I understand the technology, some company deliberately blocks AN EXISTING functionality I already paid for, in order to get me pay more money. It's more akin to a tax some government arbitrarily put on people, just to get more money.

Again, all the answers to this post didn't address the ideological matter here. They only stated the obvious and banal fact that some company X has incentive to exploit its power to increase its income.

[Al Rubin]

Originally Posted by aiharkness

The fact that the BlackBerry is designed for and intended to be used with BlackBerry/RIM services is continually lost on people. And the fact that the BlackBerry allows a user to install and use third-party apps and services does not alter the BlackBerry's raison d'être.

In my experience, apps that require access to the RIM network are using functions of the network to increase functionality and add value to the app. I don't know specifically about the app referred to here, but I would not assume the answer is so simple as a scam to extract more money from the customer.

Bottom line, if you want a fully open system, find one and use it.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

Indeed, you are correct. I bought my BB in the far east, and I use it there; this is certainly something the vendors don't tell you here.

[aiharkness]

Seems the point you are missing, Al, is google apps is a google product. If it requires use of the BlackBerry apn, that is google's decision and google's doing. RIM did not force anything on google, or on you.

And vendors on this side of the world aren't any different. Many cases of user's not knowing what they are buying, partly because of their negligence, and either ignorance or deception on the part of the store.

Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[Al Rubin]

Originally Posted by aiharkness

Seems the point you are missing, Al, is google apps is a google product. If it requires use of the BlackBerry apn, that is google's decision and google's doing. RIM did not force anything on google, or on you.

And vendors on this side of the world aren't any different. Many cases of user's not knowing what they are buying, partly because of their negligence, and either ignorance or deception on the part of the store.

Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

I don't know what is "BlackBerry apn", but if you are correct, then there must be a way to use Gmail, or similar email applications *even without the service plan*. Because, there is no incentive for gmail (if indeed RIM didn't force anything on it), or other third-party software tool to block the user from using the application. Unless, of course, I miss something in understanding the technology that enables one to use the Gmail application or the likes.


EDIT: As far as I understand now, it is not RIM who made the "scam", rather China Mobile. They probably wouldn't give you this service. On the other hand, I would then guess that there must be some way to get gmail or other email application do work without a service plan.

[Motorcycle Mama]

There is NO OTHER WAY to get GMail to work without a BLACKBERRY DATA PLAN.

It's not a "scam". And it's disingenuous to portray it as such.

The Google BlackBerry applications are designed to pass their data THROUGH THE RIM INFRASTRUCTURE. As noted repeatedly, you can't get around having a data plan if you want to use them. Period.

You keep saying that someone is blocking functionality that you "already paid for" but that simply is NOT the case. You have NOT paid for data access. Period. Thus you can't get it. PERIOD.

[aiharkness]

Just think blackberry servers, or network. That may not be completely accurate, but the gist is if a blackberry data plan is required, then the app is using the BlackBerry networks services and must have access to the "pathway" to those functions. This access information and so forth is pushed to the handset by mean of service books (search) when the Blackberry data plan is activated and the device added to the sevice.

In contrast, you may have used opera mini and had to enter the APN information in options > advanced options > TCP/IP. Opera Mini needed that access point name for the carrier network. And a point also is that Opera Mini does not (or at least did not) require BlackBerry data plan.

And the final point, you would need a general mobile data plan, or at least the mobile data service, to use Opera Mini, to continue the example. Maybe the data service would be bundled with the mobile phone service, but be sure you would be paying for it. In contrast, most BlackBerry plans are an add on, in my experience.

Yes, there are selling to users who have no idea what a BlackBerry data plan is or why the need it. Maybe the store knows better, maybe not. Users should know better and research the product before they buy, but they assume a BlackBerry is just a smartphone.

That's why I keep saying, BlackBerrys are different.

[aiharkness]

In my mind I can see the little light going on over Al's head, like in the cartoons.

China Mobile isn't going to give you the service. The big question is whether they have it and offer it for sale. Can you even buy it?

Call or go into a store.

[Al Rubin]

Originally Posted by Motorcycle Mama

There is NO OTHER WAY to get GMail to work without a BLACKBERRY DATA PLAN.

It's not a "scam". And it's disingenuous to portray it as such.

The Google BlackBerry applications are designed to pass their data THROUGH THE RIM INFRASTRUCTURE. As noted repeatedly, you can't get around having a data plan if you want to use them. Period.

You keep saying that someone is blocking functionality that you "already paid for" but that simply is NOT the case. You have NOT paid for data access. Period. Thus you can't get it. PERIOD.

1. As I said before, I do not thoroughly understand the technology behind the BB phone. Hence, I cannot positively conclude that forcing clients to pay for an existing functionality is indeed a rouse (or a "scam") or not.
For instance, if I currently use my BB for data (which I *do*), but cannot operate Gmail application (which I *did*), then I believe that the internal technology of BB + the wireless infrastructure (I am CURRENTLY already using) in my area, does support Gmail app (without any further expenses incurred on my carrier). Hence, it is highly probable that someone "pulled the plug", or in other words blocked deliberately this service for my phone.
If indeed this is the case, then by the commonly acknowledged notions of "ethics" or "justice", one can certainly claim that this affair is an exploitation of power.

We can of course get into philosophical arguments what is justified or not, how society should be built, etc. But to say a priori, that I'm not entitled, or that it is some kind of absurd, to call it a "scam" or "exploitation" is simply a mistake.

Again, my claims assume that where I am there is NO RIM infrastructure, in contrary to what you said.

2. I have stated explicitly, that Gmail app might not work without a service plan. But by what you say, the Gmail app is built to use the RIM infrastructure. In this case, I believe it is reasonable that someone has built a BB application which has a similar functionality as Gmail app, while NOT using the RIM infrastructure. And I would like to know about those.