[wabbit]

Originally Posted by test54

as mriff said, no one has said anything about justifying beheading. not really sure where you get that from. The people were not all guilty. Even if they were guilty, no one should be raped. That turns those US soldiers into actual criminals & terrorists in my opinion.

and for someone who preaches about not trusting the media & government, you give very little thought to these people being innocent.

the beheading was that of us citizen by al queda(dont really care how they spell their name)

the bigger problem is we say what we do, they don't its been proven over and over and the news will just print if it can account a side, not both, since the other side does not keep a record like we do.

the best answer would be to not to keep records of whats done. but in all, it still falls into war and war is as proven over the centuries what happens happens. nothing has changed in centuries.

[Dawg]

I agree wabbit waris war there should bezero rules he who has the biggest stick wins

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

War is horrible has always been horrible and likely will always be around!

The beheading were performed by extremists! Not citizen soldiers Trained better!
If these soldiers were unable to tell the difference of torture and rape they should have been removed from that post!
We are at war but we haven't truly Declared War!
Rules of war were developed to protect Civilian populations, religious artifacts and places of worship and mueseums and other world treasures!
Were all of those prisoners guilty probably not we have many of our own citizens in jail wrongly I'm sure not all in abu should have been there!

I agree war is war but there is still right and wrong!

[mriff]

Originally Posted by wabbit

and you believe everything that's said on the news is unbiased?

Did I say that? Where do you get this stuff?

clear facts are its war, its not a boxing match with a referee, it by an means necessary. you bring a bat, i bring a gun, you bring a gun i bring a missile.

Please tell me what this has to do with how prisoners are treated?

as some religions even have "an eye for an eye" is it right/wrong.

Huh?

bottom line in any way you try to justify war it just can not be. its going to be pain/blood and death innocent or not, some will be a casualty of war.

Of course there will be casualties in war. Who said there wouldn't be. Try to stick to the original topic please. How does this possibly relate to how prisoners of war are treated by US forces? How could rape and murder of prisoners ever be justified?

The United States has always treated prisoners of war humanely. It's been a hallmark of our democracy. The last administration conducted themselves in ways that I didn't agree with. I hope that changes.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by mriff

Did I say that? Where do you get this stuff?


Please tell me what this has to do with how prisoners are treated?


Huh?


Of course there will be casualties in war. Who said there wouldn't be. Try to stick to the original topic please. How does this possibly relate to how prisoners of war are treated by US forces? How could rape and murder of prisoners ever be justified?

The United States has always treated prisoners of war humanely. It's been a hallmark of our democracy. The last administration conducted themselves in ways that I didn't agree with. I hope that changes.

i think the whole "war" explained everything else out.

sorry that terrorism is not as a country or clearly defined who / where / positions etc

do i think the "United Sates" soldiers/employees are wrong, no. do i care if someone who supports terrorism/ death to the usa got abused by the usa no.

i will admit after 9/11 changed my whole view what to do terrorism. and considering that they will die for a cause will only bring out one way to get info out of them and that is torture.

but then again this still proves nothing since from day 1 when wars were fought villages were raped pillaged and everything else. yet this not the case, this is terrorists were talking about.

[test54]

Originally Posted by wabbit

do i think the "United Sates" soldiers/employees are wrong, no. do i care if someone who supports terrorism/ death to the usa got abused by the usa no.

The rest seemed a bit jumbled but this section about sums up your view. Two things shock me here, one is that you seem to be ok with the soldiers raping the prisoners and then that you seem to have no issue with torture as long as they don't like the US. - Amazing.

again, someone who openly distrusts the government & media is sure willing to trust them when it comes to when defining the enemy.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by test54

The rest seemed a bit jumbled but this section about sums up your view. Two things shock me here, one is that you seem to be ok with the soldiers raping the prisoners and then that you seem to have no issue with torture as long as they don't like the US. - Amazing.

again, someone who openly distrusts the government & media is sure willing to trust them when it comes to when defining the enemy.

due to the fact that the media is United States centric. it points out our flaws, and which seems to make us the bad parties.

since theirs no records of what happening to United States citizens by the other parties their is nothing to report on.

heck the guy from P.A that got beheaded when they disclosed American casualties was not even listed. Why? only reason we knew about it is it was posted all over the internet. but how many are not.

now the real question do you think, while you are home sleeping or doing your thing, your country got invaded, you think they will offer you coffee and donut or beat you 1/2 to death while they take you prisoner?

again this is what war is, all the little dirty things we "protect" our self from.

[kathrynhr]

This is a principle issue to me. I wouldn't attempt to speak for every vet, but personally: I didn't serve my country so that the values and ideals I was defending could be violated in this way (by other servicemembers, no less). No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

This is a principle issue to me. I wouldn't attempt to speak for every vet, but personally: I didn't serve my country so that the values and ideals I was defending could be violated in this way (by other servicemembers, no less). No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

I agree with you 100 percent.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

We can kill them in that universe. We just can't behead or murder them. (TIC)

Ok Kathryn, I can't figure this one out. Can you explain please?

[mriff]

Originally Posted by wabbit

due to the fact that the media is United States centric. it points out our flaws, and which seems to make us the bad parties.

since theirs no records of what happening to United States citizens by the other parties their is nothing to report on.

heck the guy from P.A that got beheaded when they disclosed American casualties was not even listed. Why? only reason we knew about it is it was posted all over the internet. but how many are not.

now the real question do you think, while you are home sleeping or doing your thing, your country got invaded, you think they will offer you coffee and donut or beat you 1/2 to death while they take you prisoner?

again this is what war is, all the little dirty things we "protect" our self from.

I really can't figure out what you are talking about. But I'll ask again. Do you think that rape and murder of prisoners of war is justified? And remember that it was the US that invaded Iraq. And it was a war. About as conventional as it gets.

[test54]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

This is a principle issue to me. I wouldn't attempt to speak for every vet, but personally: I didn't serve my country so that the values and ideals I was defending could be violated in this way (by other servicemembers, no less). No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

very well put. I agree.

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

This is a principle issue to me. I wouldn't attempt to speak for every vet, but personally: I didn't serve my country so that the values and ideals I was defending could be violated in this way (by other servicemembers, no less). No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

You can add this VET as a supporter of this statement!

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by mriff

Ok Kathryn, I can't figure this one out. Can you explain please?

My fault. I suppose the quote chain was all confused in my post. I was commenting on wabbit's view:

so its alright to behead, murder, kill innocent us citizens abroad, yet its bad for the same country to do it back to know terrorist not civilians.

I was agreeing with you and others on the issue, and responded with:

We can kill them in that universe (wabbit's world). We just can't behead or murder them. (TIC)

I was just being a smart*ss. Killing, beheading and murdering would all result in death. TIC = tongue in cheek.

[mriff]

Lol. Ok, thanks.

[djm2]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

This is a principle issue to me. I wouldn't attempt to speak for every vet, but personally: I didn't serve my country so that the values and ideals I was defending could be violated in this way (by other servicemembers, no less). No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

No matter how another person/nation behaves, we founded this nation on a set of principles that to me are absolutely inviolate. If we set them aside even for a moment, for whatever reason, we lose who we are as a people.

women were not even considered equals when this country was founded or was it the basis of anything, religion freedom was.

During the Colonization of the Americas the rape of native women was not held to be a crime under Spanish Law as the persons in question were pagan and not Christian.

i'm still confused about that statement. women were not even considered equal till the late 1950's? or some time after world war 2.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by wabbit

women were not even considered equals when this country was founded or was it the basis of anything, religion freedom was.

Wait a minute. I get it now. You're Yoda.

[test54]

Originally Posted by wabbit

women were not even considered equals when this country was founded or was it the basis of anything, religion freedom was.

During the Colonization of the Americas the rape of native women was not held to be a crime under Spanish Law as the persons in question were pagan and not Christian.

i'm still confused about that statement. women were not even considered equal till the late 1950's? or some time after world war 2.

Everyone knows our history. No one wants to go back to groups having no rights.

mriff,

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by wabbit

women were not even considered equals when this country was founded or was it the basis of anything, religion freedom was.

During the Colonization of the Americas the rape of native women was not held to be a crime under Spanish Law as the persons in question were pagan and not Christian.

i'm still confused about that statement. women were not even considered equal till the late 1950's? or some time after world war 2.

Wow, that came out of left field.



I'm confused. More than usual, I mean. How does women's lib relate to this thread topic, and/or the portion of my post that you quoted?