[nsimpson]

Blackberry was always the clear choice when it came to putting people into a data product who didnt need "palm" or "windows" specific apps. I could always sell a blackberry and say well the OS system is very reliable but with this model i cant say those things.

I think Rim goofed and tried to put it out too soon. Did i sell a crap load of Pearls? yes. Is Rim getting rich off the pearl? yes. Is the majority of the issues that came with the Rogers version of software get fixed with updates? yes. But does the average consumer know about the new OS systems or how to upload it? No.

If rim was going for the soccer moms segment of the world they should have had the forsight that the device needed to be in top condition when they got released. Which it isnt. I had to upload the new OS systems on each of my clients devices (which was like 76 for the month of decemeber alone).

Heck i love Rim products and i still would take it over a Treo or any other phone thats out there but they should have shown alittle more corp responsibilty (same with the carriers) and did more testing and come up with solutions to the problems we have seen in our pearls.

anyone feel the same way?

[phidauex]

While I think that you are right, I also think that RIM did a better job than most companies. I think the entire industry needs to get their products to a higher level before releasing them, instead of releasing junk just to meet a deadline, or get out before xmas.

However, my Tmo pearl had no problems at all when I first got it. It worked exactly as described. Now, I've upgraded OSs anyway, because I'm a geek like that, but I certainly didn't need to do so for the device to work like they said it would. Sure there are some bugs, but its not bad.

Contrast this with, say, Windows XP, which was a disaster area until SP2, and STILL has major unsolved problems (like a bluetooth stack that belongs in 1998). Or contrast with WM5, which has tons of problems, and is barely stable. Or Motorola, who advertises features that no carrier activates without a firmware update.

The whole business needs to slow down a little, and improve product quality before releasing it. But compared to the rest, RIM does a pretty darn good job. Always room for improvement though..

peace,
sam

[greggebhardt]

Everyone forgets that it is all about money. RIM is not doing this as a public service, they are in it to make money. It is hard to believe they are heading down the wrong path when you look at their stock. I purchased a butt load for a little over $30 and incase you have not looked lately, it is doing quite well.

[nsimpson]

I agree.

For the most part Rim has done a crack up job. And the Pearl really brought in a huge new customer base to them (who knows how many people will keep the data plans on their accounts in the long run) but the device wasnt up to their regular standards.

Its a really great phone. Its strange though that 3 out of 3 pearls i have had (becuase I either won them or purchased them) all had the same issues. The call lag was the worst though, especially when my number was the only way to contact my customers.

[nsimpson]

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

Everyone forgets that it is all about money. RIM is not doing this as a public service, they are in it to make money. It is hard to believe they are heading down the wrong path when you look at their stock. I purchased a butt load for a little over $30 and incase you have not looked lately, it is doing quite well.

Well... I think though for long term customers they need to keep the good name they built up. Rim is known for quality, Treo/ Palm already screwed up thier name in cell world. If they want to translate these quick holiday purchases into real long lasting customers though they need to have a solid reliable product.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by nsimpson

Anyone feel the same way?

I don't.

It's easy to criticize or nitpick a product months after it has been on the market. The reality is that few products that rely on software and programming will be perfect at the time of release.

To be sure, considering all the ways that people can mess up, tinker with or mod the phone, devices like the Pearl need to be used by consumers for a few months before patches and other fixes can be addressed.

And yes, some phones have had hardware problems, but that happens with all devices and products, not just the Pearl. Expecting perfection and no flaws is unreasonable.

Classifying a phone as defective or messed up based on what geeks do to a phone, well that does not count especially considering that out of the million or so Pearls sold [may be more or less] I doubt few people hang out on online forums like BBF and rant about RIM or the Pearl.

Fact is very few people who have bought the Pearl have any problems with it. I know three people who have a Pearl and none have had any problems except to do a battery reset [like I or tech support have said to do]. For them the phone works fine and all the other features work as they should.

There was nothing seriously wrong when the Pearl came on the market, there is nothing wrong with it now. Yes, it has had some flaws, but RIM has been addressing those and carrier warranties have been honored when a Pearl goes bad warranting a return. But nothing that has happened to date could support the idea that RIM should have held off on releasing the Pearl until it could do more testing.

It's always easy with hindsight to say RIM should have waited before releasing the Pearl. But my understanding is that the Pearl took three years to develop. In my mind that was long enough and the Sept 06 release was not a rush to market.

I also note that before the Pearl came out everyone was complaining about when RIM be putting it on the market. People wanted it and wanted it now. Taking your post into account, I think it unreasonable to hold back on the phone's release into the market because of i ssues unforeseen at the time. And I question if back in Sept 06 if given the choice between getting their hands on the phone or waiting for more testing if people like those on BBF would have said hold off on the release date.

Bottom line, I suspect 99% of Pearl purchasers are happy with their new phone, at least to the extent that it performs as advertised. And that is all that matters to RIM in regards to whom it is marketing the Pearl to, those 195 million casual/nonprofessional consumers.

And as to RIM exercising a little more corporate responsibility, that is a serious charge to make, that a corporation has behaved irresponsibly. Other than putting some updated OS's on phones, what other evidence is there that RIM has breached its fiduciary duty to its shareholders and otherwise harmed the consuming public with supposed irresponsible acts?

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by nsimpson

Well... I think though for long term customers they need to keep the good name they built up. Rim is known for quality, Treo/ Palm already screwed up thier name in cell world. If they want to translate these quick holiday purchases into real long lasting customers though they need to have a solid reliable product.

I don't think RIM is marketing the Pearl to the "long lasting customer."

Fact is, those 195 million casual/nonprofessional users buy a phone based on looks, feel, and the coolness factor.

As to functionality, these users want the phone to make telephone calls and perform multi-media functions. They are NOT interested in business applications and other PDA functions beyond maintaining an address book.

That is why the Pearl is what it is. The 8800 will be geared toward the professional market, to replace the outdated devices users now carry.

I don't think RIM is looking at the Pearl as a way to keep long term customers. They are using it to break into the casual market. To that end, the Pearl has been a success.

Lastly, I think the Pearl is a solid and reliable product [as used by consumers]. I have not heard anything in the news, blogs or elsewhere that says otherwise.

[hf1khal]

Lets put it this way, One needs to look at Nokia, SE, Moto, Samsung, LG and etc, every one of those released models that neded to go through updates. i will remind of two items, the Nokia for a while had a lot of issues with the Cingular SIMs (ATTW) and then rcenently less than a year ago SE released the 520 which they had to return each one sold by Cingular. Some got a abrnd new one as there was not enough refurbs and some had to wait a bit longer as SE could not cover teh mass return and they needed to get the reurned ones via refurb quickly. So yes, May be RIM was a bit fast, but over all they have less issues than any one of the others.

[greggebhardt]

Originally Posted by nsimpson

Well... I think though for long term customers they need to keep the good name they built up. Rim is known for quality, Treo/ Palm already screwed up thier name in cell world. If they want to translate these quick holiday purchases into real long lasting customers though they need to have a solid reliable product.

I have not forgotten quality. There is not a BB built today that compared to the build qulaity and durability of my 7520 or the 7xxx series. RIM has changed and their customer base has greatly increased. They are not the same company they were a few years ago.

I think the build quality has suffered a little but I am one to change phone pretty often as many do here. The Blackberry is by far the best phone and email device I have used and I have tried them all. The Blackberry OS still lacks the bells and whistles of the Windows and Plam devices but they make up for that in being very much more stable.

[SanFrancisco]

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

I have not forgotten quality. There is not a BB built today that compared to the build quality and durability of my 7520 or the 7xxx series. RIM has changed and their customer base has greatly increased. They are not the same company they were a few years ago.

I think the build quality has suffered a little but I am one to change phone pretty often as many do here. The Blackberry is by far the best phone and email device I have used and I have tried them all. The Blackberry OS still lacks the bells and whistles of the Windows and Palm devices but they make up for that in being very much more stable.

You are right. I think with the Pearl RIM had to compromise on quality or "heartiness" of the materials so to shoot for that 3.2 ounce "marketing weight" and also the price point.

Side by side, the Pearl next to my 7100t, the Pearl cannot compete with the 7100t's sturdiness.

I am sure RIM did extensive testing on how long a Pearl might last in the everyday consumer's hands and determined it would last long enough to when the consumer gets his or her next phone.

The Pearl is definitely not built to last longer than maybe 18 months, at most. But this is not a lack-of-quality issue, it's an intentional RIM design.

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

The Pearl is definitely not built to last longer than maybe 18 months, at most. But this is not a lack-of-quality issue, it's an intentional RIM design.

This sure sounds better than others where there phones barely make it through one year. At least with this one can survive till the next upgrade qualification.

[nsimpson]

This device was def. Rims oppertunity to get a percentage that didnt even dream of using a PDA device hooked. They call it the crackberry for a reason there people! I just feel like even though there are some "nightmare" devices out on the market that def. require software updates on the device blackberry shouldnt be one of them.

The truth of the matter is that Rogers still has on their website and what they advise people to do is upload .51 OS the average joe doesnt have the knowledge/ or isnt nerdy enough to even know about this website or about the different carriers' OS systems have fixed certain issues. When i got my PS3 it told me i needed an update and it did it all for me. No fuss whatso ever. Thats what i expect from a product like RIM. If they even held out for a couple of weeks some of the firmware issues would have been adressed where its not a big deal to my clients. And i dont think the device is riddled with problems other than the call delay and the speed of the device.

It was/ still is a hassle to upload a new OS for every customer who walks into my store wanting a Pearl.

[nsimpson]

PS im not not whinning about the product. I love it, its just that never in my long career in selling phones did i have to so much work on one device.

[ruprick]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco

The Pearl is definitely not built to last longer than maybe 18 months, at most. But this is not a lack-of-quality issue, it's an intentional RIM design.

Curious, how do you know tihs? Or do you just have a "hunch"?

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by nsimpson

PS im not not whinning about the product. I love it, its just that never in my long career in selling phones did i have to so much work on one device.

Well I will give you an example, before the others never gave the user the opportunity to do so (on the GSM side) unless one knew where to go and was tech savvy. Now if you look a VZW and sprint and every store they have they also (most of the locations) have a service desk that will be there to upgrade the software. Not many customers know about it unless they happen to call or walk in to complain and that is when they find out they there is a software upgrade. In all honesty, RIM did its consumer a big favor and they keep up on things that the rest ignore us consumers and makes things tough for us and they make us believe that it is us. In the Cingular store by me, the advise that i gave the data people is to always let the buyer be aware of what is out there as well as these forums. So far they all were very happy as the consumer felt that they were cared about. Now with the new things coming up with the OTA OS upgrade capability things might get easier but with RIM I have no idea how this would happen.

[Chinookman]

Originally Posted by ruprick

Curious, how do you know tihs? Or do you just have a "hunch"?

Maybe it's the cool factor...? I researched for 7 months, thanks to Cingular's customer service and sending me the POS called the S-Erricson 525 ....thanks Cingy.....I'm one happy camper w/ my Pearl and have no plans for changing phones.......When the time comes for doc. edits I'll pony up the money,..I'm a Pay to play guy and have little patience for whiners....he...he...he.........

18 months eh..let's revisit this then and see.......if the Profit is correct.....

C-man....

[ejmccartin]

Originally Posted by SanFrancisco
The Pearl is definitely not built to last longer than maybe 18 months, at most. But this is not a lack-of-quality issue, it's an intentional RIM design.

Originally Posted by ruprick

Curious, how do you know tihs? Or do you just have a "hunch"?

called planned obsolecense! about time RIM joined that party.

I haven't experienced all the problems others have. I have kept up with most of the OS updates (I'm nerdy enough to want to keep on top of that) but I don't see the "average consumer" that RIM is aiming for with the pearl being able to do all that. business people with their IT backup guys can handle that a whole lot better than the typical soccer mom that just wants the cool new phone. I can see where that puts more pressure on the sales/cs people to take care of customers, hence nsimpson's complaints.

[canonbomb1987]

As a firsttime BB user, it seems as though RIM is doing what every other phone manufacturer has been doin for a long time. Getting ppl to say wow about their products. A few years ago I used to think that why would a person buy a BB, they are so big and bulky. RIM has now finnaly broken into the niche of the market that craves "cool" lookin phones/ It seems like they are goin to offer solid and the wow phones from now on.

8100c

[nsimpson]

Originally Posted by hf1khal

Well I will give you an example, before the others never gave the user the opportunity to do so (on the GSM side) unless one knew where to go and was tech savvy. Now if you look a VZW and sprint and every store they have they also (most of the locations) have a service desk that will be there to upgrade the software. Not many customers know about it unless they happen to call or walk in to complain and that is when they find out they there is a software upgrade. In all honesty, RIM did its consumer a big favor and they keep up on things that the rest ignore us consumers and makes things tough for us and they make us believe that it is us. In the Cingular store by me, the advise that i gave the data people is to always let the buyer be aware of what is out there as well as these forums. So far they all were very happy as the consumer felt that they were cared about. Now with the new things coming up with the OTA OS upgrade capability things might get easier but with RIM I have no idea how this would happen.

See we dont have these areas in our stores with data products, were people can update the software. My customers want to be assured that the product they leave the store with is the best there is, and its issue free.

When customers call the customer service they only direct them to reload their same OS system (not the current one on BBF) and i suspect the US carriers do the same its not like a T-mobile store would be uploading the Cingular OS. And it doesnt matter how many times you upload an old OS it not going to fix the all the bugs if it wasnt designed to do.

This is how i earn a living, I dont want to give doubt in product that the customer is getting and signing a 3 year term on (and up here we dont have # portability yet so they basically are stuck with Rogers for a while). I belive in Rim as a company, hell I have invested 50,000 in them. I just expect more from them in this case.

Any other reps out there?

[nsimpson]

I just dont want people to be scared off from blackberry like motorola did with the c333 (if anyone had this phone they would get the idea never to buy a motorola product again).