[Active_Matrix]

Hey guys, just to point out. That SDK download link isnt live anymore. Someone has to contact ya. :(

[austex]

Originally Posted by mikealdo

From my experiences with a 7520, I'd say 50 hours was VERY good !!!

I live and work in an urban area, close to cellphone towers. That means the BB doesn't have to use much power for transmitting, so its battery life is probably enhanced.

[robhawley]

To be fair, there is an in-expensive PUSH e-mail solution for the Treo. By using IMAP ($20/year IIRC through fastmail.fm) and ChatterMail (about $30 IIRC), you have a good push e-mail solution at least on par with BWC. From my own experience it does cut the Treo's battery life by 50% and uses about twice the amount of data as a Blackberry.

Having said that, I traded my Treo for a 7100r and haven't looked back.

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

There's push available for other devices such as Goodlink for TREO. Unfortunately, all of them are more proprietary -- you have to pay a huge arm and leg for these solutions. Apart from the big $$$$ you have to pay for other push email solutions,

[tpblackberry]

Any idea on the battery life of the 7230, you think it's pretty close to the 7520?

[colonel]

not sure why you say 'this does not apply to the 7100 series'.
I think it all does.
In addition, the 7100 series has a higher resolution brighter screen, is slimmer and lighter. I know 'full keyboard guys' scoff at suretype, but thats before you've used it. Its great.

In any event, if you want email, IM, RSS & web browsing in one device. with instant access there is no other device that touches it:

1. Treo/palm os. Heavy, large, primitive email. Lack of good applications. No useful mulitmedia facilities.
2. Pocket PC. Really powerful device. Great software, screens, games and video. But poor battery life. And WM smartphone not really in the same league as bb. No good keyboards in small form factor. Primitive email.
3. Symbian. Great as a phone. 3rd party software getting better. However, Diary limited and pull email a hassle. No good keyboards.
4. Blackberry 7100. Small, slim, great screen. Email, web, IM and internet services generally instant and a different league from other devices. Keyboard great but requires a 2 hour learning curve (then faster then 'full micro keyboard'). However, games and other 3rd party software limited and no really multimedia facilities (totally unessessary for this device IMHO)
5. Blackberry 72xx. Nice screen. Email, web, IM and internet services generally instant and a different league from other devices. Keyboard good, but contributes to size and weight of device. However, games and other 3rd party software limited and no real multimedia facilities (totally unessessary for this device IMHO).

thats my 2cents

[Good_Guy]

Mark, you make very good points in your comparison and most are dead on. Although you are probably one of the biggest BB zealots on the fact of the planet, in general your advice/comments are fairly even handed. That being said, there are a couple things to keep in mind

Battery life: Spot on. However, you fail to mention that the processor in a Treo/PPC is much more powerful than in the BB which is a direct correlation to battery life.

Ruggedized: Yup. No doubt, though I would be curious to get your impressions on the 'ruggedability' of the 7100 as I have see one, but haven't dropped one. Seems a bit more fragile than the 62XX or 72XX, but maybe not as much as the Treo

Data Loss Prevention: 650 no longer uses volatile memory storage, so you can yank the battery out for a week and be fine.

Security: I haven't seen a PalmOS based virus outside of phage that popped up back in 2000. That being said, that is not to say that it won't happen and you are wrong in your assesment. The other points are very true and <blatant plug> with GoodLink, those are addressed</blatant plug>, but I understand that the majority of the Treos ouyt there are NOT running GoodLink, so you are 100% correct. PPC is another animal entirely and MSFT being known as the security gurus they are, it won't happen on that platform.

Email: You mention GoodLink and with the recent agreement with Cingular, GoodLink is now less expensive than Blackberry and runs on PocketPC devices with Windows Mobile support coming soon. This is not, however, the place to look at BB vs GoodLink.

Stability: This is one of the most debated items out there, though in general, you are correct. I can say that I have never had a stability issue with my Treo, but again, BB is a very stable platform. Several factors can be pointed to, the most obvious being that it is a much more mature product. We won't mention the recent outages though they are typically few and far between.

I think the key deciding factor in determining which PDA to use is how you want to use it and that 'typical' usage pattern is changing almost daily. I am not one that says BB will soon become obsolete as they are the dominant player in this space, however, the competition, not just from the likes of Good, SYNC, Visto, et al, is heating up dramatically. RIMM, is in essence, a hardware manufacturer and with HP jumping in with the 6515, they get added to the list that contains Siemens and Motorola as the RIMM competitors.

[southwestcomm]

My $0.02 on this topic.

1. The guys at Microsoft recently unveiled their "Direct Push" system, which according to this article <http://www.wirelessnewsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=36078> will:
...will transfer messages straight from the latest version of Microsoft Exchange Server to devices running Microsoft's newest Windows Mobile software. The company says the approach doesn't require an extra server or other infrastructure used in the BlackBerry system, making it less expensive.

It's always fun to tear apart these marketing announcements. Microsoft's Pieter Knook (what a name!), mentioned in the conference call that Microsoft has more than 100 million people using 'different versions of Exchange', while RIM only has 3 million subscribers. What he neglected to mention was that Direct Push will require a specific version of Exchange Server 2003, yet to be released, which means that even if the software is released later this year, it'll be a couple months before most large organizations put the release on the boxes and then probably another couple months while they evaluate the effectiveness of Direct Push. Oh, and then they have to get 3 million people to either upgrade their phone / PDA's to Windows Mobile 5.0 or buy new phones that support Windows Mobile 5.0. In short, they're still at least a year away from even moving out of vaporware status. And if Longhorn is any indication, I wouldn't be holding your breath.

2. Yes, the Goodlink Email server is less expensive than a BES but if you want MDS funcitionality expect to pay thousands of extra dollars for the additional server.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

My $0.02 on this topic.

1. It's always fun to tear apart these marketing announcements. Microsoft's Pieter Knook (what a name!), mentioned in the conference call that Microsoft has more than 100 million people using 'different versions of Exchange', while RIM only has 3 million subscribers. What he neglected to mention was that Direct Push will require a specific version of Exchange Server 2003, yet to be released, which means that even if the software is released later this year, it'll be a couple months before most large organizations put the release on the boxes and then probably another couple months while they evaluate the effectiveness of Direct Push. Oh, and then they have to get 3 million people to either upgrade their phone / PDA's to Windows Mobile 5.0 or buy new phones that support Windows Mobile 5.0. In short, they're still at least a year away from even moving out of vaporware status. And if Longhorn is any indication, I wouldn't be holding your breath.

2. Yes, the Goodlink Email server is less expensive than a BES but if you want MDS funcitionality expect to pay thousands of extra dollars for the additional server.

1. You are 100% correct. Service Pack 2 for Exchange 2003 will be required for the MSFP (Messaging and Security Feature Pack). Even with that, you hit the nail on the head in that there isn't an enterprise in the world that is going to immediately throw SP2 on their Exchange boxes until at least the first patch is released. I think you are being generous in giving them a year. I would guess closer to two.

2. The key difference between GoodAccess and MDS (again, this is not the thread for this, but just a clarification to your point) is that once GoodAccess is installed, you can access any applicatioin that supports web services using AboveAll Studio. No third party intervention/integration is required.

[southwestcomm]

Last point - MDS is free - GoodAccess is not.

[aau007]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

Last point - MDS is free - GoodAccess is not.

MDS is more like a proxy for the BB unit. GoodAccess is for applications deployment. They serve different purposes.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

Last point - MDS is free - GoodAccess is not.

And you get what you pay for.


Sorry, had to

This is a legitimate question and not meant to be critical as I simply do not know:

With MDS, what can you do, out of the box, without any other add-ons or third party apps?

[southwestcomm]

Push application data, request application/database data, access to backend systems, Java aware application access, etc. Yes, you may require third party software to achieve your final goal but the MDS functionality is part of the BES. It is an extra cost to deploy that functionality with the Good solution.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

Push application data, request application/database data, access to backend systems, Java aware application access, etc. Yes, you may require third party software to achieve your final goal but the MDS functionality is part of the BES. It is an extra cost to deploy that functionality with the Good solution.

I know what MDS does, but what is required to push app data, access backend systems, etc? Does an applet/application need to be written or purchased? If that is the case, then MDS is more of a conduit that requires additional application to actually utilize it, which will be an extra cost.

[southwestcomm]

The requirement to push data or application data is the same for the MDS or the Good solution. My point is that MDS is FREE it requires the purchase of an additonal server from Good to provide the functionality.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

The requirement to push data or application data is the same for the MDS or the Good solution. My point is that MDS is FREE it requires the purchase of an additonal server from Good to provide the functionality.

And my point is the transport is free, but you are going to end paying to have the applications to actually use the transport, be it through development or purchasing third party applications. With GoodAccess, once you purchase GoodAccess, that is it. There is no development required,there is no third-pary app required. You have apps that have web services, you drag and drop the fields you want to query, push it to the phones, and it is functional. No additional cost.

[aau007]

For people on BES, MDS provides better web experience. However, Goodlink users don't need anything similar to MDS since on the Palm or PPC with internet access and builtin web browser, web experience is at least as good if not better. Only time Goodlink users need GoodAccess is when they need applications publishing. Without the need of applications publishing, a conduit like MDS on Goodlink is moot. Push applications via MDS also has to be specifically written for MDS, which means development cost or pay-to-push.

[aau007]

BTW, Goodlink has Global Connect now.

[shadowlesss]

With Exchange SP2 coming out in the near future, many of the PDA's with Microsoft OS's can now take advantage of push technology. Also these Companies have devices that will work with Active Sync Technology

palmOne, Motorola, Nokia, Symbian, DataViz



Shad

Originally Posted by jeremy

With the plethora of PDAs available in the marketplace, is the "push" capability--for which the Blackberries are so popular--available in any other devices?

I have been wondering this because, although I'm addicted to my Blackberry (which I affectionately call my Crackberry) because of receiving e-mails instantly, it does not seem open-source friendly and this is important to me. I get to use a lot of free software that is on-par with the closed-source stuff, but I cannot sync the Blackberry with standards-based, open platforms like I could do with a Palm-based device.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by shadowlesss

With Exchange SP2 coming out in the near future, many of the PDA's with Microsoft OS's can now take advantage of push technology. Also these Companies have devices that will work with Active Sync Technology

palmOne, Motorola, Nokia, Symbian, DataViz



Shad

Couple of clarifications: DatViz does not make devices.

As for SP2, while it appears to be great, especially being free, there have already been concerns voiced regarding security and if it is truly 'push' (as BES, GoodLink, and others). It remains to be seen if MSFT delivers on what they say will be in SP2 as it relates the messaging portion.

[shadowlesss]

Picky Picky....well they do develop applications for devices for which they must have a licence.

With Microsoft there is always a security threat but we still use the technology!

Shad

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

Couple of clarifications: DatViz does not make devices.

As for SP2, while it appears to be great, especially being free, there have already been concerns voiced regarding security and if it is truly 'push' (as BES, GoodLink, and others). It remains to be seen if MSFT delivers on what they say will be in SP2 as it relates the messaging portion.