[LunkHead]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

A bloated, government-run bureaucracy by definition is not the best method to deliver anything, as I see it.

I agree!

The government is well known for paying $200 for a $10 hammer, paying $450 for a $30 toilet seat....

Ya the government should manage our health care........ NOT

Right now you probably pay $30 for an aspirin if you get it from the emergency room... Can you imagine the cost if the Government ran it?

Ohhhhhhhh my!

The basic aspirin would be $175, then you have to add the 47 riders that were attached to bill ($50 for the ethical treatment of Moose, $30 to save the squirrels foundation, ect....)

That aspirin is now at $255 with 45 riders to go....

Ya, I am all for the government running our health care system... NOT

Kris

[test54]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

OK, I get it now, your references are above reproach, but any which cite statistics and information you disagree with are biased by definition.

The Fraser Institute is in Canada, so I doubt they're out to "get Canada" either. In fact, they say that "The Fraser Institute is an independent non-partisan research and educational organization based in Canada."

So tell me please, why the W.H.O. is more "objective" and less biased - other than the fact that you happen to agree with their position.

my statement was from the Fraser site- they deal in the US and Canada and their objective is to get govt. out of health care - if thats not a bias then I'm not sure what is.

[Dawg]

Wow, Test the more you speak the more I think your name is in Russian? Ive never seen a person who wants more Gov more than you.

[test54]

Originally Posted by Dawg

Wow, Test the more you speak the more I think your name is in Russian? Ive never seen a person who wants more Gov more than you.

you and gadget just think communism & socialism are the same thing don't you?

and you seem more like gordon gecko all the time. your attitude would have fit in perfectly at Enron back in the day.

but in all honesty I am all for a capitalist society but it has to be regulated by the government and there must be a few social programs that serve to give the essentials to the people so the foundation of the workforce is given the best opportunity to compete globally. Those programs are education, health care, transportation, military and unemployment benefits - all of which can be termed socialist programs. The regulation is important because as the world has found out a unregulated free market will implode over time because of greed.

[Dawg]

why why why why why do we need goverment regulation? Then let it implode an dthe next system can take over. The reason this country is in such shambles now is because of all the reghulation the gov. puts on everything.

Goverment is not the answer to everything. As you seem to think. If you want to give all your money away so be it but I want to keep mine.

Socialism is as bad as communism to me. There is no difference in my opinion. I had to go out and spend money on school supplys yesterday for my kids because the teacher took everything from them and gave it to the class. Why the hell should I have to support Garcia and Jesus and Juan?

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by test54

my statement was from the Fraser site- they deal in the US and Canada and their objective is to get govt. out of health care - if thats not a bias then I'm not sure what is.

test, if the only way you can make your argument is to attribute "objectives" to Fraser that they themselves have not articulated, than you would appear to be having a hard time making objective arguments for your case. Nowhere did Fraser say that "their objective is to get gov't. out of health care." In fact, if you look objectively at their site, they're involved in a whole lot more than health care, and their research is peer-reviewed and the data available to back up the reports.

Our research consistently has led the intellectual consensus on key public policy issues, and we continue to explore new areas with innovative approaches. Hundreds of academics and experts from around the world have contributed to our work, including six Nobel Laureates.

Our research is peer-reviewed and overseen by an Editorial Advisory Board of leading international scholars. The data that we use are available for anyone outside the Institute to draw upon.

Since you played the Nobel card in support of YOUR view, its interesting to note that six Nobel Laureates have contributed to their work.

But by all means, continue to attack the organization when you haven't managed to figure out how to attack their findings directly. After all, that's rather telling in and of itself.

[test54]

Originally Posted by Dawg

why why why why why do we need goverment regulation? Then let it implode an dthe next system can take over. The reason this country is in such shambles now is because of all the reghulation the gov. puts on everything.

Goverment is not the answer to everything. As you seem to think. If you want to give all your money away so be it but I want to keep mine.

Socialism is as bad as communism to me. There is no difference in my opinion. I had to go out and spend money on school supplys yesterday for my kids because the teacher took everything from them and gave it to the class. Why the hell should I have to support Garcia and Jesus and Juan?

Yeah regulation sucks but the alternatives are far worse, that has been proven time and time again.
To me its the Lobbyists that are the #1 problem with the government.

to say socialism & communism is the same is sweet ignorance i guess.

[test54]

Dallas,
from their site -
"Health Care
Canada has one of the worldxxx8217;s most expensive health care systems, with poor access to health care services. Our system doesnxxx8217;t allow patients to fully benefit from new medical technologies and requires long waits for care. This is because we lack the appropriate incentives for both patients and providers to make the most efficient use of medical goods and services.

Canada should adopt a system like Switzerlandxxx8217;s that offers universal compulsory private health insurance that includes drug coverage. This provides both the benefits of cost-efficiency and the broadest possible access to advanced medicines and medical care. Read more about our findings on health care"

"Support Greater Choice and Personal Responsibility
The Fraser Institute is a registered non-profit organization. We depend entirely on donations from people who understand the importance of impartial research and who support greater choice, less government intervention, and more personal responsibility."

I have no doubt that their statistics are sound but as you have said - statistics can be adjusted - and in this case its my opinion that they have a goal and they are adjusting them to help the cause.

There are plenty of other countries that do very well with other forms of either fully universal healthcare or a mix private & public healthcare. My point is that the current system does not work and there are better options out there.

and if you read that first sentence of the Fraser statement you see "Canada has one of the worldxxx8217;s most expensive health care systems" - you know who's #1 in that ??

Yay - we're number one !!

[johnathan.carriere]

Originally Posted by Dawg

why why why why why do we need goverment regulation? Then let it implode an dthe next system can take over. The reason this country is in such shambles now is because of all the reghulation the gov. puts on everything.

Goverment is not the answer to everything. As you seem to think. If you want to give all your money away so be it but I want to keep mine.

Socialism is as bad as communism to me. There is no difference in my opinion. I had to go out and spend money on school supplys yesterday for my kids because the teacher took everything from them and gave it to the class. Why the hell should I have to support Garcia and Jesus and Juan?

my goodness...what if their names were cathy and susan and roger?

[LunkHead]

Originally Posted by johnathan.carriere

my goodness...what if their names were cathy and susan and roger?

I think Dawg would be just as upset... I agree if a teacher took my kids school stuff and passed it out, I'd be just as bent as Dawg is... I would file a complaint and make a claim against the School District, the school, and the teacher...

I know this is your 1st post here but please try to not read into statements, make accusations... Dawg has never came across as a racist to me...

Kris

[test54]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

I know this is your 1st post here but please try to not read into statements, make accusations... Dawg has never came across as a racist to me...

Kris

he has to me and I've been here awhile. its clear what he meant by using those names.

[LunkHead]

And you are entitled to your opinion... We can all agree to disagree... This area is a fun place but it won't last long if we make accusations, call each other names ect..

Political and religious conversations are very touchy topics... We all can agree to disagree and just because someone does not agree with member X's view is really no need for name calling and put downs...

Maybe Dawg meant something by it, and maybe he didn't.. Perhaps the school his child goes to is prodomitly Hispanic....

Kris

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by johnathan.carriere

my goodness...what if their names were cathy and susan and roger?

What I am saying is I dont want to support anyones kids.

I used those names because our local school system is over run with illegal aliens children. They know they can come here have children and stay. None of them pay school tax because they dont own property. So whos paying for their free lunches, their school supplys and so on.

I cant file a claim Lunk its school system policy to not allow one student to have something more than the other. You know "it takes a village crap."

Originally Posted by test54

he has to me and I've been here awhile. its clear what he meant by using those names.

Well you have come across as a...... Well lets leave it at that.

I have never once on this site claimed I hate anyone or color. Do I hate the stereotypical thug or terrorist? yes. no doubt about it! But I do not hate anyone because of their skin color and I take great exception to being called a racist by you or anyone else.

[johnathan.carriere]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

I think Dawg would be just as upset... I agree if a teacher took my kids school stuff and passed it out, I'd be just as bent as Dawg is... I would file a complaint and make a claim against the School District, the school, and the teacher...

I know this is your 1st post here but please try to not read into statements, make accusations... Dawg has never came across as a racist to me...

Kris

...hmmm...so, ban me if you wish...
...you don't want me to read into statements...how can one not?...geesh...if in fact the problem that dawg has is with the school supplies he purchased for his children being redistributed throughout the class, then say so and leave it at that...don't cite racially descriptive names like Juan, Garcia and Jesus...i think it's obvious what is really bugging dawg...

Originally Posted by Dawg

I used those names because our local school system is over run with illegal aliens children. They know they can come here have children and stay. None of them pay school tax because they dont own property. So whos paying for their free lunches, their school supplys and so on.

...as you so perfectly say:

Originally Posted by LunkHead

This area is a fun place but it won't last long if we make accusations, call each other names ect..

...guess that doesn't apply to "illegal aliens children"...
...i know this is the "sensitive discussions" area...but there still is a fine line to be walked here...

[test54]

edited because of personal attack.

[Dawg]

Im really getting ****ing tired of you calling me a racist Test. Just because I dont care for illegal aliens getting something for free I am a racist? Give me a ****ing break. You are really starting to get under my skin. I never claimed to hate anyone Hispanic, Muslim or other.

I happen to have several Muslim friends whom I would entrust my children to or my finances. As far as Hispanics go if they are here legally then good for them if they arent then they need to be rounded up and sent back.

Jonathan I dont know you and really dont care anything about your statements as they are just you ignorance showing through.

[test54]

I have no doubt that you are truly not a racist, just some of the comments sound like generalizations that are are indeed racist. You can like people and still make racist generalizations about them behind their back, it happens all the time.

[Dawg]

Just because you cant see body language doesnt mean they even sound racist. You jumped on the racist band wagon just because Johnathan said it.

[ndub33]

Personal attacks won't be tolerated. Stay on topic or be prepared to take a little time off.

[JSanders]

Sensitive Discussions
ABSOLUTELY NO PERSONAL ATTACKS! USERS BEWARE: There will be limited moderation within this forum, if you go heavily out of line, you will be banned.

Does seem one or two here need to chill out, get some editing done or go away.

I would define a personal attack as intentionally making reference to another user here in a damaging manner. We can call Obama a nutjob liberal rascist, and you can refer to Republicans as a whole as idiot fascists.

But you will not refer to members of this forum in any similar damaging manner.

That is the way I understand the statement above.