[Stinsonddog]

Wirelessly posted (8700c: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

While the 8800 looks great I am curious why no UMTS/HSDPA? WiFi doeant really help people without a hot spot account, when travelling and looking for high speed. If it woere carrier provided it would be wonderful to tether. Curious if any one has thoughts on this.

[bperkins]

Forgive my ignorance, but will the built in WiFi only be for email/browsing? Will it be possible to use the WiFi for phone use?

I too am surprised that HSDPA will not be on the device.

[jibi]

WiFi will be used for data and voice; it's also not limited to hot spots or paid-for services (i.e. - your home WLAN could be used; university, corporate campus, or hospital WLANs could be used; downtown city-provided WLANs could be used; etc).

In all honesty, if we want to discuss availability of services, WiFi is found in MANY, MANY more places with better coverage than UMTS/HSDPA. UMTS/HSDPA deployments are found only in major metropolitan areas (same goes for UMA/GAN from T-Mobile, as well; although, as mentioned, the WiFi capabailities are not limited to these technologies) on a single network in the United States and is not of the same frequency as the future of the technology will be. Also, does Motorola even have a chip that does quad-band (or tri-band, or whatever it would be) UMTS/HSDPA? While the rest of the world has standard frequencies, Cingular chose to go elsewhere with their deployment.

[bperkins]

Thanks as always Jibi...this is huge for me since I have a poor signal at the house but a healthy Wifi signal

[jibi]

Originally Posted by bperkins

Thanks as always Jibi...this is huge for me since I have a poor signal at the house but a healthy Wifi signal

I think this will be one of the biggest pluses for the added technology, assuming they decide to implement it as advertised.

[Stinsonddog]

Still the core RIM market was business and right now the only really option to tether is VZ's EV-DO, and the 8800 doesn't move into that space which allows you to tether in major markets, if I understand what this does. Let' say I go to a hotel, I still need to pay for wifi so in that case I would probably use my PC.

[tomh009]

Originally Posted by jibi

In all honesty, if we want to discuss availability of services, WiFi is found in MANY, MANY more places with better coverage than UMTS/HSDPA. UMTS/HSDPA deployments are found only in major metropolitan areas (same goes for UMA/GAN from T-Mobile, as well; although, as mentioned, the WiFi capabailities are not limited to these technologies) on a single network in the United States and is not of the same frequency as the future of the technology will be. Also, does Motorola even have a chip that does quad-band (or tri-band, or whatever it would be) UMTS/HSDPA? While the rest of the world has standard frequencies, Cingular chose to go elsewhere with their deployment.

Many, many more places ... in North America. In Europe, UMTS networks are widespread but the 8800 will have to roam on GPRS only. And in Japan the 8800 won't be able to get any connection at all since they have UMTS only.

[jibi]

Originally Posted by tomh009

Many, many more places ... in North America. In Europe, UMTS networks are widespread but the 8800 will have to roam on GPRS only. And in Japan the 8800 won't be able to get any connection at all since they have UMTS only.

There will be a successor to the 8707 in those areas, but until the United States, which is the core of RIM's business, starts establishing UMTS/HSDPA and beyond GSM/WCDMA networks, I don't think we'll expect to see the flagship BlackBerry device line take a bow to those technologies.

[CountZero]

Originally Posted by jibi

While the rest of the world has standard frequencies, Cingular chose to go elsewhere with their deployment.

I think the Cingular going 1900 for UMTS is a bit more complicated than that, isn't it? I believe, if my memory is correct, that through their acquisition of AT&T, they inherited AT&T's contract with DoMoCo for UMTS technology sharing or something like that. Whatever it is, the contract forces Cingular to start deploying UMTS in the US by 2005 or they will have to pay DoMoCo a heavy penalties. And since 2100 band was not available at that time, Cingular is more or less 'forced' to deploy on 1900.

Saying Cingular 'chooses' to use 1900 for UMTS is not really true, is it?

[Jagga]

Originally Posted by jibi

In all honesty, if we want to discuss availability of services, WiFi is found in MANY, MANY more places with better coverage than UMTS/HSDPA.

I agree with tomh009. In North America, WiFi is readily accessible, especially in Seattle, WA (as far as I can remember it was the FIRST city in the world to be completely blanketed with WiFi with a community effort way back in 2001).

Originally Posted by jibi

UMTS/HSDPA deployments are found only in major metropolitan areas (same goes for UMA/GAN from T-Mobile, as well; although, as mentioned, the WiFi capabailities are not limited to these technologies) on a single network in the United States and is not of the same frequency as the future of the technology will be. (edited Motorola has nothing to do with this) While the rest of the world has standard frequencies, Cingular chose to go elsewhere with their deployment.

This has nothing to do with frequencies not being a standard on UMTS/HSDPA. Here in North America with available licenced frequencies, 850/1900Mhz was the ONLY viable option offered by the CRTC/FCC for purchase by providers that would NOT conflict with the existing technologies.

Issue is Cingular decided to take soo long to implement UMTS throughout the USA in a tiered fashion; whether for fincial, market, or demographic reasons. Then again the nature of the common or average/median cellular phone user just wants a fashionable phone that makes great call quality. The marketing done by handset manufacturers & wireless providers STILL doesnt portray specific phones (smartphones really) as a lifestyle aid or work aid. Look on RIM's site there is a little niche location that shows how applications are made and can help specific work forces & corporations that have them. "Email" isnt the only thing any BB can do and if RIM wants to realize more revenue with their providers then BOTH have to show more of what the 8700/8100 can do with things like maps, alarms, appointments & adjustments, financial aids, etc. Over in Japan cellular phones are beyond fashion, yet its still there, but their common consumers see having a cellular phone as a lifestyle counterpart, or aid. Remember back in the day when Palm pda's where king?! Everyone had to have one or did, or was going to purchase one within the month. Smarphones STILL hasnt reach that pinnacle yet, imho.

[cwg36]

Originally Posted by jibi

I think this will be one of the biggest pluses for the added technology, assuming they decide to implement it as advertised.

Jibi: First time asking a question here. Kind of nervous. You said that the 8800's WiFi functionality can handle data and voice. So if I am connected to my home WiFI network, I can make a call and it will technically be billed as data and not voice? I ask this b/c I make a lot of international calls, and if I could make them through my WLan, and use data and not voice (VOIP style) that could save me a lot of dough. Can the 8800 do this or am I way off?

[Lurs]

Originally Posted by CountZero

Saying Cingular 'chooses' to use 1900 for UMTS is not really true, is it?

...well, that's part of the story. They also have many 850MHz licenses/towers. It's just that they have four networks: AMPS, TDMA, GSM, and now UMTS/HSDPA. They need to shut down AMPS and TDMA to free up some spectrum in certain areas, so that they can deploy UMTS/HSDPA on both the 850MHz and 1900MHz bands. As to the 2100MHz band, the one used here is not compatible with the one used internationally.

[Phone Guy]

Originally Posted by Lurs

...well, that's part of the story. They also have many 850MHz licenses/towers. It's just that they have four networks: AMPS, TDMA, GSM, and now UMTS/HSDPA. They need to shut down AMPS and TDMA to free up some spectrum in certain areas, so that they can deploy UMTS/HSDPA on both the 850MHz and 1900MHz bands. As to the 2100MHz band, the one used here is not compatible with the one used internationally.

Cingular is required by the gov't to maintain the existing TDMA network until May 2008 I believe. Most of the network is 850, of course a lot of what spectrum they use is determined by how much bandwidth they have in each market.

[bigjay8510]

i think wifi is the selling point for me, as i am either on campus (which is covered in wifi) or my house which also has wifi. therefore throughout the day i will be connected via wifi.

[david_uk]

I'm really surprised the 8800 is not UMTS.

UK Voda already sell an UMTS enabled BB as the 8707v, so this seems like a step backwards.

Having blown billions to secure 3G licenses, I'd have thought that all the European operators would have demanded 3G devices from RIM, not because BB users are gagging for mobile TV, but because UMTS apparently reduces their data transmission costs by up to 90%. Across millions of data-centric devices, that's a lot of moolah.

[Lurs]

Originally Posted by Phone Guy

Cingular is required by the gov't to maintain the existing TDMA network until May 2008 I believe.

I believe it's just the analog that they are required to shut down in 2008. They can shut down TDMA whenever they want; it's just that there are still customers on it. In fact, I believe they plan to shut down TDMA in 2007.

[Phone Guy]

Originally Posted by Lurs

In fact, I believe they plan to shut down TDMA in 2007.

Could be. So many things going on, it's hard to keep the dates straight.

[jungleland]

Originally Posted by jibi

WiFi will be used for data and voice; it's also not limited to hot spots or paid-for services (i.e. - your home WLAN could be used; university, corporate campus, or hospital WLANs could be used; downtown city-provided WLANs could be used; etc).

In all honesty, if we want to discuss availability of services, WiFi is found in MANY, MANY more places with better coverage than UMTS/HSDPA. UMTS/HSDPA deployments are found only in major metropolitan areas (same goes for UMA/GAN from T-Mobile, as well; although, as mentioned, the WiFi capabailities are not limited to these technologies) on a single network in the United States and is not of the same frequency as the future of the technology will be. Also, does Motorola even have a chip that does quad-band (or tri-band, or whatever it would be) UMTS/HSDPA? While the rest of the world has standard frequencies, Cingular chose to go elsewhere with their deployment.

That's great..but the real question is, when you use voice, will the minutes you use while on wifi, will they deduct from your plan minutes...same question
on data too (for those who don't have unlm)

[Fungineer]

Originally Posted by cwg36

Jibi: First time asking a question here. Kind of nervous. You said that the 8800's WiFi functionality can handle data and voice. So if I am connected to my home WiFI network, I can make a call and it will technically be billed as data and not voice? I ask this b/c I make a lot of international calls, and if I could make them through my WLan, and use data and not voice (VOIP style) that could save me a lot of dough. Can the 8800 do this or am I way off?

From the leaked Indigo presentation, they list the phone as having WiFi/UMA, but no mention of VoIP (or more specifically, SIP). UMA is "Unlicensed Mobile Access". UMA allows your GSM call and GPRS data services to be done over a WLAN network (through an IPSec tunnel - so it's sort of VoIP but not what you'd traditionally call it). All UMA does is replace your connection from phone -> base station -> carrier network with phone -> Access Point -> internet -> carrier network - this makes things like call handovers a snap, because to the carrier, you roving from a base station to an AP is the same as you hopping base stations while driving down the highway. This does however allow the carrier to still track every minute of voice time you use. whether they choose to bill you the same or not is another matter.

[supercat25]

I know Rogers is trying to do this type of service with their home phone. So if they do this does the end user save any money?