[Mark Rejhon]

Hi,

Anyone getting the new Apple iPhone just for its PDA functions?
I'm not interested in iPhone/iPod -- I'm deaf.

It's a fullfledged ultraportable MacOS X machine with 4 gigabytes, with WiFi, Bluetooth, and bonus data - and it probably is even programmable enoguh to work through external Bluetooth data sources (such as my BlackBerry).

And for once, multitouch technology finally lets me use a stylus (optional) on the touchscreen while resting my wrist on the screen -- that never works on an iPaq. (Even though I have a BlackBerry, I have an iPaq too as well for use as an electronic notepad -- this Apple PDA appears to totally blow away an iPaq). Could easily be a great notepad for the deaf.

And without using a cellphone plan, I can juse the Apple PDA using an external WiFi or Bluetooth data connection instead -- with the best handheld web browser in its form factor (just drag finger to scroll, and pinch two fingers in/out to zoom in/out to magnify -- easy!). And the screen is a very high resolution 360x480 pixel screen -- one of the highest resolutions in this form factor. Looks like it can be a great photo viewer, great video player, snazzy UI, full UNIX programmability, etc, etc.

[jedi31780]

Yeah it looks very nice but having to go to Cingular for the phone is a big turn off for me.

[Mark Rejhon]

Originally Posted by jedi31780

Yeah it looks very nice but having to go to Cingular for the phone is a big turn off for me.

There is a claim that these will be available unlocked. A higher price for sure, but available unlocked. And for much less than the price of an OQO or similiar device. Also exclusivity clauses are time-limited, so it won't always only be Cingular...

I wonder how fast the CPU is in this phone? I imagine it is an ARM-type CPU, and it uses some 3D/video capable chip, from the looks of its UI.

[blakeatl]

I wouldn't pay that much for a phone. Yeah yeah I know.....it's more than a phone.......but it's still a phone.

[stac]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Hi,

Anyone getting the new Apple iPhone just for its PDA functions?
I'm not interested in iPhone/iPod -- I'm deaf.

It's a fullfledged ultraportable MacOS X machine with 4 gigabytes, with WiFi, Bluetooth, and bonus data - and it probably is even programmable enoguh to work through external Bluetooth data sources (such as my BlackBerry).

And for once, multitouch technology finally lets me use a stylus (optional) on the touchscreen while resting my wrist on the screen -- that never works on an iPaq. (Even though I have a BlackBerry, I have an iPaq too as well for use as an electronic notepad -- this Apple PDA appears to totally blow away an iPaq). Could easily be a great notepad for the deaf.

And without using a cellphone plan, I can juse the Apple PDA using an external WiFi or Bluetooth data connection instead -- with the best handheld web browser in its form factor (just drag finger to scroll, and pinch two fingers in/out to zoom in/out to magnify -- easy!). And the screen is a very high resolution 360x480 pixel screen -- one of the highest resolutions in this form factor. Looks like it can be a great photo viewer, great video player, snazzy UI, full UNIX programmability, etc, etc.

Mark, I'm with you on this... though I'm not deaf (thankfully)... I DESIRE this... ever since my Newton hit the road on me, I've been waiting for this device... and the implementation seems flawless... OMG. I had trouble breathing when I saw it. I was prepared for a phone and music player, not an OSX experience like the one I saw. I'm floored, and I'll be $600 poorer in just a few months, but drooling like a little baby at the same time.

-Stac

[dgray8]

hey Mark could you say for sure if this thing has expansion slot or not? The rumors say no but I don't know for sure.

*wonders what software Mark will make for the iPhone*

[jxdel]

Originally Posted by stac

Mark, I'm with you on this... though I'm not deaf (thankfully)... I DESIRE this... ever since my Newton hit the road on me, I've been waiting for this device... and the implementation seems flawless... OMG. I had trouble breathing when I saw it. I was prepared for a phone and music player, not an OSX experience like the one I saw. I'm floored, and I'll be $600 poorer in just a few months, but drooling like a little baby at the same time.

-Stac

I had been considering either getting the BlackJack or the Blackberry 8800 (when it comes out) from Cingular but after seeing the iPhone, I am gonna wait and shell out the 600 bucks. We have already reserved 3 iPhones from our Corporate REP.To me that is bargain considering carry an iPod and a phone both of which combined were over $600 when I first bought them. And on top of getting an ipod and a phone, I get a touch screen full blown OSX operating system on a handheld device. How can you beat that!!

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

It's a fullfledged ultraportable MacOS X machine

Mark, you may end up being right - we're all just speculating at this point, but pretty much everything I've read says that its not a full-fledged OS X machine at all, but runs some kind of "Pocket OS X" operating system, which would make sense, since its a totally different CPU, with completely different I/O, etc etc. What makes you think its "full-fledged OS X" any more than Windows Mobile is "full-fledged Windows"??

Additionally, time will tell, but as for programmability, here's what one report said yesterday:

Press reports today said the phone will not accept third-party applications, though Apple may allow third parties to program mini-application "widgets."

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

There is a claim that these will be available unlocked. A higher price for sure, but available unlocked.

Where have you heard the claim that they'll be available unlocked? From the same article:

While "there are bad guys out there that unlock phones," Lurie said, Apple and Cingular are taking unspecified steps to make the phone more difficult to unlock and use on other GSM carriers in the US.

Cingular: We Made Apple Bend

Sounds to me like not only will they NOT be made available unlocked, but they may well be even MORE difficult to "crack" and unlock than most phones.

[backbeat]

Hhhmmm .... How many cross-posters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

[dgray8]

as i prefer to say....time will tell....corporations do tend to change their minds sometimes.....so i'll just wait and see how things are once its out in June

[jxdel]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

Mark, you may end up being right - we're all just speculating at this point, but pretty much everything I've read says that its not a full-fledged OS X machine at all, but runs some kind of "Pocket OS X" operating system, which would make sense, since its a totally different CPU, with completely different I/O, etc etc. What makes you think its "full-fledged OS X" any more than Windows Mobile is "full-fledged Windows"??

The keynote address did say it would run MAC OSX and not some pocket version of it and presumbly the CPU in the iPhone is supposed be an intel chip. So if you can run a full version of Windows in these UMPC devices why not the iPhone.

[Mark Rejhon]

I think the real truth is somewhere in between. It's definitely a slimmed down version of MacOS X, but much more closely related to the original MacOS X than WindowsCE is related to Windows XP.

For example, embedded versions of Linux can run pretty much the same software as the full fledged Linux operating systems -- for example, the same utilities without even a recompile. Some libraries (i.e. X11 and color graphics) may be missing, but things like emacs would work out-of-the-box if it was the same CPU architecture, or can easily be recompiled.

It is probably using some 800 Mhz or 1 Ghz Intel XScale CPU -- though shockingly it might use some kind of ULV x86 CPU (I doubt it through -- after all Mac OS X is very easy to port to other CPU's: Reportedly, they succeeded getting a port running on Intel ahead of schedule, during an internal milestone). Efficient programming, and a good nVidia 3D accelerator may work to only require a standard 624 Mhz Xscale. (After all, iPhone is reportedly using the PortalPlayer chip, which I understand was aquired).

However, its processing horsepower seems impressive -- reading apple specs say the 5 hour battery life for video playback applies to playing H.264 video at 640x480 at 1.5 megabits per second. This is literally HDTV quality for a handheld at the 160dpi such a small screen uses. (because of the smallness of the screen, the better quality videos would look better than DVD in a relative sharpness scale) However, this may be from extra chips (i.e. PortalPlayer or nVidia 3D video chip).

Based on news I've read in the past, I'm 75% sure it's probably using an PortalPlayer chip, an nVidia 3D chip and an Intel XScale chip. For the PortalPlayer chip, google past news and you will see what I mean. The nVidia 3D video chip for handhelds, similiar to the 3D chip now in Dell X51v - just because it seems to be the best available handheld GPU for the nifty smooth effects on the iPhone. And an Intel XScale, anywhere between 624Mhz and a gigahertz; already used in many handhelds - just because Apple now has a relationship with Intel and the rumors abound, plus the ULV x86's are not small enough to fit into a sub-5-ounce iPhone (UMPC's are not that light yet, and battery life is not as long as 5 hours for a battery in such a tiny gadget no larger than an 8700). Or a combination of chips thereof - I'm not familiar whether or not nVidia has merged a PortalPlayer type chip into a handheld 3D chip, to save on motherboard space, and maybe it's a single chip solution already - or a top secret in-house chip. They were impressively secretive!

[Mark Rejhon]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

Where have you heard the claim that they'll be available unlocked? From the same article:

Cingular: We Made Apple Bend

Sounds to me like not only will they NOT be made available unlocked, but they may well be even MORE difficult to "crack" and unlock than most phones.

You might very well be right. On the other hand, there will be a way to unlock in some countries - because of different laws relating to unlocked phones, otherwise they might very well have Apple's ass --

It might not be for another 12 months, you never know -- but eventually there will be an unlocked version (legal or greymarket or otherwise) because of certain prevailing country restrictions against permanent locked phones...

What will happen is that the world will probably have about 12 to 18 months of field days of exclusivity in certain countries, until it filters down to wider "any carrier" type of availability... Example: One carrier such as Cingular first. Then two carriers. Then open to all carriers in the country.

It will probably be a major hacker target (especially if it is a full fledged OS -- although I am pretty sure Apple has gotten it locked down military-style)

Also, I heard they will lock down on third party apps at first -- Third party applications may not be easy to make at first but it pratically begs that it eventually be possible -- otherwise Apple developers will have Apple's ass if they permanently ban third party apps. (It's my understanding it will eventually be at least possible to write "widgets"). Say, someone writes a finger-dial applet where you draw numbers with your finger on the entire screen, to dial a number -- or that someone writes a telnet terminal for iPhone, etc. After all, Apple let Opera and Google technology on these, so there got to be a way to get into the "elite" list of permitted developers at first (then Apple would eventually invite more developers to it). I believe that Apple wants to gradually vet out the iPhone architecture on the market, and gradually open it up to developers (while still being restrictive), ala Research-In-Motion-style -- you know how it used to be very hard to write Internet software for BlackBerries, and it is much easier nowadays? BlackBerry is still a very locked-down platform, but is more open than it used to be, and I predict Apple will probably eventually open its iPhone platform bit by bit... and I am sure many MacOS X software will easily recompile on the iPhone too.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

It might not be for another 12 months, you never know -- but eventually there will be an unlocked version

It will probably be a major hacker target (especially if it is a full fledged OS -- although I am pretty sure Apple has gotten it locked down military-style)

I completely agree with you. It would be foolhardy to assume it will never be unlocked, nothing will ever be 100% hacker-proofed. As you say, on the one hand it sounds like Apple has done everything they can possibly think of to prevent easy unlocking, but on the other hand there will be more focus and more effort applied to unlocking this thing than we've ever seen with any cell phone before.

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Also, I heard they will lock down on third party apps at first -- Third party applications may not be easy to make at first but it pratically begs that it eventually be possible -- otherwise Apple developers will have Apple's ass if they permanently ban third party apps.

Again, I agree. The thought of it never being opened to third party apps is unimaginable. Sounds like it won't be open in the beginning though, and will happen slowly over time. And just like the unlock problem, even if Apple doesn't officially open it to 3rd party apps, there will be tremendous efforts being made from day one to get third party apps running, even if illicitly.

[Mark Rejhon]

Confirmed, iPhone is NOT using Intel chip:
Source: http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/intel_iphone/

PortalPlayer probably in iPhone:
Source: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=iPhone+PortalPlayer&meta=

PortalPlayer purchased by nVidia, makes it likely nVidia may have combined PortalPlayer with a handheld 3D chip:
Source: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=PortalPlayer+nVidia&meta=

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon

Confirmed, iPhone is NOT using Intel chip:
Source: http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/11/intel_iphone/

PortalPlayer probably in iPhone:
Source: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=iPhone+PortalPlayer&meta=

PortalPlayer purchased by nVidia, makes it likely nVidia may have combined PortalPlayer with a handheld 3D chip:
Source: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=PortalPlayer+nVidia&meta=

Well, the article where Intel says an Intel chip isn't being used sounds like a pretty "golden" source, but other than that, speculation is still all over the map. Here's an article from Information Week (from page one of your first google link) that claims that PortalPlayer is NOT used, but that "According to a report from FBR Research, the winners are Samsung Electronics (applications/video processor), Marvell (802.11), Infineon Technologies (baseband), Broadcom Corp. (touch screen controller), and Cambridge Silicon Radio (Bluetooth)."

What's in Apple's iPhone and Who's Building It?

Who knows!? :shrug:

[Mark Rejhon]

All good speculation. It's a mystery for now.

It's even up in the air, whether the screen is an LCD or OLED. Anyone know?

I think Apple does a better job keeping certain things secrets than CIA does - but now it's out. Time for some reverse engineering organization to do a teardown (with photos and videos) of the iPhone internals. I can't wait for that - I do like to gawk at the internals of bleeding edge technology.

Now I wonder if Apple and Nintendo are the same company. Wii looks so much like an Apple product. (similiar ads, similiar packages, similiar design, similiar fandom). Okay, they are separate companies, but the similiarities are astounding today.

[dgray8]

just shows that "great" minds can think alike

[xxaarraa]

It looks really cool and all, but I aint putting a laptop sized device to my face, even if its an apple product. Ill wait for the iphone "mini"

[test54]

i see you use the 8800, have you ever compared the sizes?????

I think you might be shocked by the comparison.

Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm IPhone

4.5 x 2.6 x .55 inches Blackberry 8800

Feel the burn....