[dc/dc]

Originally Posted by the-economist

CIO's cost-cutting measures include move to Gmail

No corporation with a large enterprise and a self-respecting IA officer will move from in-house servers and services to a public service like Gmail. In business, communications security is paramount, and Gmail cannot adequately provide that. Gmail is fantastic for small businesses, but it is not a good choice for the enterprise. Further, the assertion by the other poster that "most businesses have WiFi" is not accurate for the same reason I mentioned above: security. If they do have WiFi, it is usually heavily restricted.

I'm not sure what business you're in, but jsconyers and I are both well-certified and experienced IT experts and can speak with a fair amount of authority on the subject.

[the-economist]

Moving services to the cloud is a rather quick way to cut costs. Companies who make the move are also quite up the foodchain. Research facilities, server farms and support channels are also being outsourced. In economic conditions as such expect to see a lot more of it.

Uncle Sam also feels the pressure. It's compliance issues that won't permit for gov records or services to fly to far asian lands or the cloud, although i have a couple of links i posted before of public services moving to the cloud.

[the-economist]

Originally Posted by dc/dc

No corporation with a large enterprise and a self-respecting IA officer will move from in-house servers and services to a public service like Gmail. In business, communications security is paramount, and Gmail cannot adequately provide that. Gmail is fantastic for small businesses, but it is not a good choice for the enterprise. Further, the assertion by the other poster that "most businesses have WiFi" is not accurate for the same reason I mentioned above: security. If they do have WiFi, it is usually heavily restricted.

I'm not sure what business you're in, but jsconyers and I are both well-certified and experienced IT experts and can speak with a fair amount of authority on the subject.

I hear you. And personally i agree 100%. Cost-cuts is a rather heavy incentive though, and i had compiled a list before of corporations moving to the cloud, they're not corner flowershops.

[TBOLTRAM]

When the CIA or NSA moves their stuff to the "cloud" then I will take it seriously. Until then it is another scam to get corporations to spend funds until the next "big thing" comes along. It's the American way you know.

I still believe in "ground hog computing" where everything is locked down and local. There may be a chance of security with that scheme but there is absolutely none with a cloud scheme.

[JSanders]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

But now it's like when you sit through a movie for the 18th time and you already know the ending.

So move on and quit looking at the car wreck.

The point I've made before and now (and I think most of those here are making) is that if you don't want the data plan, fine. Just don't come expecting and whining that your BlackBerry features and services are not working and you want it ALL for free. That's the point.

So, yea, amen and quit rubbernecking.

[the-economist]

Originally Posted by TBOLTRAM

When the CIA or NSA moves their stuff to the "cloud" then I will take it seriously.

Private corporations that have to present the stockholders with actual figures have little in common with national security agencies that can ride the budget on will.

[aiharkness]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by pootshwan

AMEN! I'd also like to mention that there seems to be somewhat of a cult following on this forum. If you don't share the same core ideas as a few people everyone takes it upon themselves to start bashing you. It sort of reminds me of a high school clique. Wake up people...this is the 21st century, diversity/differences are a good thing and should be encouraged. Does anyone else feel this way? I know most people reading this will not even agree with me for the harassment that will ensue. I don't mind. I will revisit this thread to read through the people scorning me. It honestly makes me laugh. Some of things people say are actually intellectual and funny, even if it is poking fun. I know people are going to pick apart my post and try to make a mockery of it to all their forum buddies, but I can take it...I'm thick skinned. It remind me of when I was 13 and I would try so hard to do something in front of my buddies to get a laugh etc.

When I read through the forums there are an excessive amount of threads where one 'highly ranked' well respected forum member will disagree and call out a poster. It's usually a sarcastic mockery of a response to what the poster has said. Then soon after, the cronies follow suit and start taking 'jabs' at this person. It seems as though every post following is trying to make the funniest, most calumniating response possible. I don't know about you guys but this sounds immature to me. I can tell there are a lot of mature people on the site, you just don't act it. Maybe internet forums are your only escape to act immature because it's looked down upon to act in this fashion anywhere else. The anonymity of the internet really turns shy introvert people into social butterflies with egos the size of china.

These are just some of my opinions and my observations of reading through this forum. Don't get me wrong, being a BB user I find the site useful, but all the other 'junk' on the site is almost disturbing. Just go through and find a post where an 'outsider' voices their opinion. You will most likely see a group of people literally teaming up and bashing one person. You'll see them each take their turn teeing off with some complex verbiage mixed with extreme sarcasm. I admit, it was funny the first couple times I saw it. But now it's like when you sit through a movie for the 18th time and you already know the ending. When I see someone post something a little off base I know without even scrolling down that comments are going to be calling out this inferior forum member rendering them stupid.

Well, after typing all that out I'm ready for the harassment. So bring it on, I know you want to impress your forum buddies. I'm glad I can provide you with three paragraphs of material to piece out and pick apart.

No harrasment. But geeze! Do you think you might suffer a little confirmation bias? Have you really spent time on other forums?

This is a public forum with members ranging widely in age, background, and personality. Actually, and my opinion of course, but this forum has the best signal to noise ratio of any other blackberry forum. Most people here trying to help others seem to do their best to tell you what they know and let you know when they are only speculating.

Yeah, this forum does have a culture, just like any would. There are some things that many here are very intolerant of. Yeah, some don't see the point of owning a blackberry without a data plan, but many others will say it's your call. But what has become a severe irritation is the new members who come on the forum and whine, or ask how they can cheat their service provider.

My opinion. There is more good on this forum than bad, much more. If you want to pick something and try to make that out to be the example of the forum as a whole, you get no sympathy from me.

[pootshwan]

But what has become a severe irritation is the new members who come on the forum and whine, or ask how they can cheat their service provider.

Believe me I can understand how this can be an annoyance. IMHO someone that comes to this forum for ways to cheat the providers, or cheat anything else for that matter should be warned. If something else comes up with this member, he/she is issued an infraction, third time - banned. I'm a mod on a couple different forums. When garbage like that comes up we lock the thread, move it to the trash bin (no posting allowed) and move on. We may message the user privately explaining why the thread was closed etc. The general theme here seems to be a bit different. Mod's leave the thread open and (it seems like) encourage the members to tee off. If the subject is not tolerated why even keep the thread open for discussion?

Do you think you might suffer a little confirmation bias?

Definitely not. Like I said, I'm a mod on a couple different forums. I've never seen anything like the groupies here. There's such a strong conviction pushed onto the members by the aforementioned highly ranked members. Then you get all the groupies that try to one up the previous guy/girl by adding more sarcasm . It doesn't make for a good environment. I'm not putting this forum's community down. I'm just saying unless you partake in these (my opinion) childish gang attacks you're part of the minority. Personally, I would rather not post anything than to take shots at someone through an online forum. I guess I value my time too much to be a part of that.

My opinion. There is more good on this forum than bad, much more.

I agree with you. A lot of good information on this forum. That's kind of why I felt the need to comment on all of the negative. I hate when I start reading an interesting thread only to find by the time page 2 is over it turns into a sarcastic competition.

If you want to pick something and try to make that out to be the example of the forum as a whole, you get no sympathy from me.

I think it's pretty apparent where I get this thought process from. You have over 7,000 posts you know how things work around here. I didn't formulate this idea from one thread.

[JSanders]

So, look at who's picking apart, etc.

Come on poot, live by your own criticism.

[TBOLTRAM]

Originally Posted by the-economist

Private corporations that have to present the stockholders with actual figures have little in common with national security agencies that can ride the budget on will.

We have to follow federal rules regarding how our communication system is put together. All switches, routers, etc. are locked down with passwords. All software used is certified. All email has "added" features. We are not a federal agency.

You obviously do not work in a critical industry. By the way, I understand that there is another round of rules coming regarding communications systems and procedures.

We do have Wi Fi here but to get on the intranet you have to log in using a Signify RSA device. Same way at our production facilities.

[wabbit]

i like this thread tho i even gave him an answer......

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

That's like asking why buy a corvette if you're not going to drive 150 mph? Why does anyone buy a Hummer...? Why buy a wireless mouse/keyboard if your not going further than the cord can reach? Why buy carpenter jeans if you're not going to carry tools with you?

People buy nice things for luxury. I don't see how this is hard to understand. If I owned a corvette I'd definitely drive it around but I'd probably never drive 150 mph just because I own a corvette. Collect-ability. If I owned a hummer, sure I'd drive it, but would I really need its 'High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle' capabilities? I don't think so. Why do an extremely large percentage of the people that buy wireless mice/keyboards never even go further than a wired mouse/keyboard can reach? Luxury. Why do people buy carpenter Jeans? According to you: what a ridiculous thing to buy...why not just buy regular jeans? Style. Comfort maybe?

Do I need to keep going? I didn't think so....

your corvette comparison is null and voided to a blackberry.

blackberry work the same way as an iphone/ipod.

i can purchase an ipod, but ffs with out itunes, its just a paper weight. period! it needs itunes to even turn on!

your automotive comparison is apple to oranges. since it would more have to be you bought a specific car for a specific road that has a fee to drive on and only those cars are allowed.

i dont know why i am even bother but the bottom line is this.

a blackberry is not a smartphone. its an extention of BIS and BES its not a windows mobile phone or a nokia or samsung or any other phone company out there even the iphone ( which does require a data plan to any bloody thing in it) like the droid.

sure they will function over wifi, over apn's and other protocols, but thats not there primary design, or what they are intended for, for a long time carriers were fine with it, and got a lot calls over this till they had enough and said all phones require there correct data package. so in the end carriers have wifi texting phones, have blackberry for people who want BIS/BES have iphones for music/video and 99cents cr-apps, etc....

your best car comparison would be you went out bought race car and decided to commute to work with it, in 2 hrs of 5 mph traffic. YOU CANT they over heat they are designed to go that 200-300mph. else they blow up.

[pootshwan]

the point of the comparison of a blackberry to a car is simple...you're missing the point completely.....

When you buy a blackberry without the data plan the device still works as a phone. You can own a BB with a voice plan and without a data plan, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Basically the data plan is peripheral luxury, although recommended, you can opt out if you want. This is where I was able to draw the comparison to corvette.


You buy a BB or You buy a corvette (no voice plan/no gas = paperweights for lack of a better word)

You buy a BB with Voice plan or You buy a corvette and fuel it (Main cause of each 'toy' achieved - the phone works/the car drives)

You buy a BB with voice and data or You buy a corvette with increased horsepower and fuel it (Using the toy to it's full capacity. Achieving main feature AND using their peripheral features - browsing the web/going faster than the normal vehicle)



Don't you see....if you buy a BB with voice plan you have a BETTER than average cell phone, you definitely do not use the device to it's full capacity. You do not browse the web etc.

If you buy a corvette and fuel it you have a BETTER than average vehicle, you definitely do not use the device to it's full capacity. You do not race the car etc.


I made the comparison in the first place to show that humans buy things without using them to their full capacity ALL THE TIME.....
You may think the BB is useless without a data plan but I can make the same argument that it's useless to buy a corvette unless you plan on racing the car.

[the-economist]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

You can own a BB with a voice plan and without a data plan, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

There are parts of the world where you can get a data-only plan BB.

[jsconyers]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

the point of the comparison of a blackberry to a car is simple...you're missing the point completely.....

When you buy a blackberry without the data plan the device still works as a phone. You can own a BB with a voice plan and without a data plan, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

This is not true. I have many users that have BlackBerry devices with DATA ONLY, no voice plan at all. They were purchased as data only devices. So, you can own a BlackBerry without a voice plan and data only. It works both ways.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

the point of the comparison of a blackberry to a car is simple...you're missing the point completely.....

When you buy a blackberry without the data plan the device still works as a phone. You can own a BB with a voice plan and without a data plan, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Basically the data plan is peripheral luxury, although recommended, you can opt out if you want. This is where I was able to draw the comparison to corvette.


You buy a BB or You buy a corvette (no voice plan/no gas = paperweights for lack of a better word)

You buy a BB with Voice plan or You buy a corvette and fuel it (Main cause of each 'toy' achieved - the phone works/the car drives)

You buy a BB with voice and data or You buy a corvette with increased horsepower and fuel it (Using the toy to it's full capacity. Achieving main feature AND using their peripheral features - browsing the web/going faster than the normal vehicle)



Don't you see....if you buy a BB with voice plan you have a BETTER than average cell phone, you definitely do not use the device to it's full capacity. You do not browse the web etc.

If you buy a corvette and fuel it you have a BETTER than average vehicle, you definitely do not use the device to it's full capacity. You do not race the car etc.


I made the comparison in the first place to show that humans buy things without using them to their full capacity ALL THE TIME.....
You may think the BB is useless without a data plan but I can make the same argument that it's useless to buy a corvette unless you plan on racing the car.

man ignorance is bliss, i really dont want to get into this.

but your example blows for lack of better words.

know why?

the vette comes detuned for idiot drivers. what does this mean, if you bought it for looks and dont buy 93 octane its fine the engine wont ping since the pcm is set up for the car to run on 87 hence why so many flashers will make that car faster since from the show room its stupid proof.

also why this comparison does not work vs a blackberry.... blackberry does not make a smart looking phone thats only a phone.

its an EXTENTION OF BIS/BES.

you can get a bb, with no voice plan fyi, even in the states maybe not every carrier but its very possible.

as for buying for looks why spend 50k on vett when all you will do is look at it. spend 2.99 for a poster and takes up way less space.

[Noodle22]

Many of our corporate clients have BlackBerry's on data only plans. It's not something we openly promote as a company but we have it as a solution.

[dc/dc]

Originally Posted by wabbit

man ignorance is bliss, i really dont want to get into this.

but your example blows for lack of better words.

know why?

the vette comes detuned for idiot drivers. what does this mean, if you bought it for looks and dont buy 93 octane its fine the engine wont ping since the pcm is set up for the car to run on 87 hence why so many flashers will make that car faster since from the show room its stupid proof.

also why this comparison does not work vs a blackberry.... blackberry does not make a smart looking phone thats only a phone.

its an EXTENTION OF BIS/BES.

you can get a bb, with no voice plan fyi, even in the states maybe not every carrier but its very possible.

as for buying for looks why spend 50k on vett when all you will do is look at it. spend 2.99 for a poster and takes up way less space.

You really didn't help anything here. If you want to participate in a discussion, speak English.

[pootshwan]

Honestly the fact that you can buy a blackberry with just a data plan is news to me. I guess you learn something new everyday. But I knew some people, 3 in this particular case, would pick out something wrong in my post and harp on it. Instead of actually adding to the conversation, all they care about is showing their forum buddies how intelligent they are. I don't mind being corrected in the least bit, but for heavens sake add something to the conversation instead of just correcting me. The reason for the post was to clarify my previous post. I had a couple people confused how or why I was comparing purchasing a blackberry to purchasing a corvette. But in essence, it's the same thing on a larger scale. You're purchasing a higher end item without using this item to it's full potential. And before someone tries picking apart the term 'higher end'...I think we can all agree a Corvette is higher end than a Civic, and a Blackberry is higher end than RAZR.

The main idea to grasp is humans buy things all the time without using them to their full capacity. The corvette comparison was the first thing that came to mind. There are many many more.

I was trying to point out that contrary to popular belief it's not so absurd to buy a Blackberry as a phone, just as it is not considered absurd to buy a corvette as a car in modern society.

[jsconyers]

Originally Posted by pootshwan

I was trying to point out that contrary to popular belief it's not so absurd to buy a Blackberry as a phone, just as it is not considered absurd to buy a corvette as a car in modern society.

I agree with this. My sister and brother-in-law have BlackBerry Pearls with T-Mobile and don't care to use the internet, BBM, email on the device. They like the form factor of the device. They don't complain about not getting data, etc.

However, I don't see myself being able to use a BB without data. But, that doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to.

As for your other comments, it seems as if you're trolling or trying to start a debate with some of these people you're referring to. I commented on your post correcting you as it did add something to this thread. If I saw some other misinformation from another poster, I would comment on their post and correct them as well. There are a LOT of people that view these forums and never post. If they see misinformation and it isn't corrected, then they will take it as fact. It wasn't in any way an attack on you. You can take it as you will.