[takeshi]

Originally Posted by bucketmouth

i understand the corporate side of not having wifi/camera....but so many models!! just have a model with everything wifi,camera,gps.....and another without those features for corporate use. all i know is 8800 series seems obsolete.....why buy this when 8300 will be out soon? seems like we are all missing some peice of the puzzle.

If you understand the corporate need for the 8800 then you should also understand why it's not "obsolete"... In fact, plenty of BB's older than the 8800 aren't obsolete yet.

[clyde_turkey]

Originally Posted by BBAdmin

I think assuming BG was given a device (any device) by RIM is wildly off the mark. Think about all the companies writing third party software for devices who need access to evaluation devices, think about all the top tier dealers, service providers, carrier employees who have access to evaluation devices and then stupidly chose not to keep them under wraps. Yes BG has friends in high places, but those friends are not RIM. I for one get access to evaluation units from RIM (I've had my 8800 for months) but I value the fact I get it and I'd never put my job or my companies relationship with RIM on the line by leaking information all over the place - that would be giving up a lifetime of access to early equipment for a brief moment of online fame. The fact is BG doesn't care who he takes with him - and people have lost their jobs because of him before - that's their choice and risk to pass info on to him, but none the less he's exploiting it.

I've spent a lot of time with RIM pre-release products and I don't care to show them off to anyone for a few minutes of internet fame either.

[spblat]

Originally Posted by takeshi

If you understand the corporate need for the 8800 then you should also understand why it's not "obsolete"... In fact, plenty of BB's older than the 8800 aren't obsolete yet.

My 8700 will be useful for years. But when the 8800 leaked, I wanted it. And now the smaller 8300 is even more drool worthy.

The question remains. When (if?) the 83xx "papa bear" is out with GPS, wifi and a camera, what distinguishes the 8800?

If the 8300 is more of a consumer device, what does the 8800 have that the 8300 lacks?

[H3LLFIRE]

Originally Posted by spblat

If the 8300 is more of a consumer device, what does the 8800 have that the 8300 lacks?

I was thinkin the same thing. Many forum members have annointed the 8800 the "pro" version and the 8300 the "consumer" version. Personally I think the lines are blurred between what is meant for business and what's only for fun. Obviously the camera makes the 8300 less desireable for many businesses who want to prevent information leaks. But there are other businesses (like real estate) where the camera phone makes a lot of sense.

If the 8300 ends up on TMo then all of this makes sense. The 8800/20/30 is the qwerty pearl for Cingular. The 8300/20/30 is the Tmo line.

And if the 8300 is truly released on Cingular/ATT then I'll be extremely confused!

[CarBob]

Originally Posted by H3LLFIRE

I was thinkin the same thing. Many forum members have annointed the 8800 the "pro" version and the 8300 the "consumer" version. Personally I think the lines are blurred between what is meant for business and what's only for fun. Obviously the camera makes the 8300 less desireable for many businesses who want to prevent information leaks. But there are other businesses (like real estate) where the camera phone makes a lot of sense.

If the 8300 ends up on TMo then all of this makes sense. The 8800/20/30 is the qwerty pearl for Cingular. The 8300/20/30 is the Tmo line.

And if the 8300 is truly released on Cingular/ATT then I'll be extremely confused!

AREN'T WE ALL !!

CarBob

[H3LLFIRE]

Originally Posted by CarBob

(confused) AREN'T WE ALL !!

CarBob

Head hurt. Room spinning. Need ... 3G ... Blackberry.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by spblat

If the 8300 is more of a consumer device, what does the 8800 have that the 8300 lacks?

The ability to be used in environments where cameras are not allowed -- hence the mention of corporate suitability.

The majority of BB's out there are still used in corporate, government and military environments. The "professional" and "consumer" designations are just guidelines used for convenience in discussion about the different models. There's no hard and fast rule that says that the 8800 is only for corporate use and the 83XX's are only for consumers. I mean, my 8800 is totally for personal use until the 83XX's roll out. It also doesn't mean that the "corporate" model is any better than the "consumer" model -- it's just a difference in suitability.

In any case, the point is that entities that want a cameraless BB need to have an option since they're still a major portion of RIM's user base.

Originally Posted by H3LLFIRE

If the 8300 ends up on TMo then all of this makes sense. The 8800/20/30 is the qwerty pearl for Cingular. The 8300/20/30 is the Tmo line.

And if the 8300 is truly released on Cingular/ATT then I'll be extremely confused!

That's spurious logic. Nothing prevents Cingular users from using or wanting cameras. The carriers will pick the models that they want to offer. It's possible and even likely that multiple carriers will offer each model.

Didn't TMO carry the 7290 and the 8700g? Doesn't Cingular offer the Pearl? I just don't understand how you reached your conclusion. Additionally, BG's photos show an AT&T theme on the 83XX device he was using. Not just the AT&T network ID that you see across the top of the screen on all BB's but an AT&T theme.

It would be odd for TMO to not carry the 83XX with WiFi since they're offering UMA but that doesn't guarantee that they will nor does if guarantee that they will have any sort of permanent exclusive on the entire 83XX lineup. On the other side of the coin, Cingular's launch exclusive on the 8800 will expire and you'll see it offered by other carriers.

[H3LLFIRE]

Originally Posted by takeshi

That's spurious logic. Nothing prevents Cingular users from using or wanting cameras. The carriers will pick the models that they want to offer. It's possible and even likely that multiple carriers will offer each model.

Didn't TMO carry the 7290 and the 8700g? Doesn't Cingular offer the Pearl? I just don't understand how you reached your conclusion. Additionally, BG's photos show an AT&T theme on the 83XX device he was using. Not just the AT&T network ID that you see across the top of the screen on all BB's but an AT&T theme.

It would be odd for TMO to not carry the 83XX with WiFi since they're offering UMA but that doesn't guarantee that they will nor does if guarantee that they will have any sort of permanent exclusive on the entire 83XX lineup. On the other side of the coin, Cingular's launch exclusive on the 8800 will expire and you'll see it offered by other carriers.

Sorry takeshi, didn't mean to get you all fired up. I have nothing against Cingular carrying both the 8800 and 8300, or even with them selling a camera-equipped Blackberry. I just figure for them to get the most profit it might make sense if they offered them on different networks. Many of us are tied to a 1- or 2-year plan with our respected carriers. Unless we're willing to pay the hefty cost of an unlocked phone, we choose from what the carrier offers. Like I said, I really REALLY hope the 8300 initially comes out as an ATT/Cingular device. Eventually of course the 8800 and 8300 will likely be on multiple carriers.

[gonavyblue]

Originally Posted by RochesterBBUser

Not sure I agree with the above. BG is not just leaking details that someone emailed to him (e.g. modern day Deep Throat) He actually has the 8300 device in hand. I assume he would only get that directly from RIM. Since RIM is sending it to him, I further assume that they know what he is going to do with it (e.g. publish details about it).

Scott

I highly doubt RIM would give a device to Boy Genius. He's an attention seeking little turd.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by H3LLFIRE

I just figure for them to get the most profit it might make sense if they offered them on different networks.

Oh I see... It could make them more competitive against each other to release them that way but both TMO and Cingular have a pretty good number of corporate clients as well as individual consumers who would love an 83XX. We actually use both carriers and select the carrier on the basis of coverage needs.

My guess is RIM is assuming that there's a guaranteed customer base for the 8800 in the corporate, government, and military markets. The 83XX really seems like a new product branch to me as it's the first family of full qwerty and camera-equipped BB's. RIM certainly thinks of it this way given the new model series designation of X3XX.

[FynxSyndct]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

I *might* be willing to trade my son (he is 14 and can do yard work ect...) for an 8300.....

I have a two year over grown backyard, it might be worth it...

[Malkier]

I originally thought along the lines of some business cant have camera phones, but at the same time, given that most businesses would be running BES, all they would have to do is use the IT Policies to disable the cameras. Perhaps what it comes down to is more so two things.
Cost factor - For every extra that goes into a phone, eg camera, wi-fi the more it cost to make, which increases sale cost making it less competative.
Battery - We all know how important this is for RIM (and us the users), the more hardware a phone runs, the more it will drain the battery life.

I'm not saying this is all correct, just my thoughs.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by Malkier

I originally thought along the lines of some business cant have camera phones, but at the same time, given that most businesses would be running BES, all they would have to do is use the IT Policies to disable the cameras.

Guess you've never had to actually deal with a situation where cameras were prohibited?

This has been covered before. You try explaining to the security guard at an office, the officer at a courthouse or the MP at a military installation about how that obvious camera in your BB is disabled by BES. They're just going to tell you to hand it over... There has to be a model line in each generation that is cameraless for corporate, government and miltary customers. Either that or a removable camera module. Security isn't going to waste time verifying whether you're on BES or not and whether or not an IT policy is in effect to disable the camera.

[Malkier]

Yeah your right, I thought about it after and thats exactly the case, disabled or not, they will see the phone and thats all that matters to them. I also spoke to RIM today about the new models and the reason behind the 8800 is for pure business, no phone and full qwerty.

[tommyboy]

You'll know why when the devices are officially announced. Hint - RIM is highly concerned with the battery life of their products.