[MobileRC]

Chuck Norris uses Rogers.

[apasic]

Originally Posted by MobileRC

Chuck Norris uses Rogers.

hahaha, if Chuck Norris used rogers they woud have long figured out the meaning of unlimited

[MobileRC]

I was trying to think of something horribly witty like "Chuck Norris is secretly Ted Rogers and did a roundhouse kick on the last person that suggested uncapping the 25mb plan"

[shadowbox]

Originally Posted by MobileRC

I think with the launch of the 8700 they stopped advertising it as an unlimited plan, but I am not certain of that. I may be out to lunch.

I don't think it was the launch of the 8700 that made Rogers stop the false and misleading advertizing. It was the increasing number of BB users voicing their objections to being so blantantly lied to. Of course talk about a class action suit helped a lot, in combination with the petition which has been signed by over 500 people so far already.

I lost track of how many times i've heard that rogers is on the verge of adjusting their billing structure. It hasn't happened in the approximately two years we have been asking them to give us the opportunity to buy bandwidth in excess of 25MB at a decent price, and I don't think it ever will. Oddly enough, treo users are offered a 100MB for $100 option. But then, with a carrier/ISP like Rogers irrational behaviour of this kind is hardly surprising.

Since reducing my BB use to what is for me the absolute minimum, I'm going through around 40MB of data a month. No web browsing at all, a small amount of email, the bulk of the bandwidth being used by IM and ssh clients. Mark and other 8700 users in here have done bandwidth tests and found that the 8700 can quickly and easily eat up a ton of bandwidth. The big sticking it to the customer continues, ever more profitable for Rogers as RIM provides them with new devices that are more and more bandwidth intensive. Come to think of it....since we are RIM customers too, and since RIM most definitely wants us to stay with their handhelds, it would be in RIM's interest to have a word with Rogers on our behalf.

shadowbox

[spin-dizzy]

I really, thoroughly enjoyed having an RSS reader on my blackberry - whenever I had a few minutes during the day, I'd see what was new at Engadget, or Computer World, or even CNN...but as a result of overages, I had to uninstall my RSS reader. While the advertising may have changed and the $60 plan is no longer called *Unlimited*, there's no doubt that the power users are still left without an option to sign up for a truly unlimited plan.

For those that recommend switching over to Bell, what is your plan for power users who travel to Europe? As far as I know, I'm stuck with Rogers...

[Jase88]

Can you indicate the source of your numbers? And the timeframe which this data represents? There have been recent data options added which will impact average usage (Google Local, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger...etc)

Assuming that your info is accurate, I can see the non-8700 numbers being skewed, as there are still plenty of Mobitex users out there (these devices have limited capabilities beyond email).

Further, the issue is not so much the cap--its the lack of rational pricing compared to other data offerings (they sell 100MB of EDGE data for $100), and the lack of overage or "power user" options.

And you are correct: Rogers no longer promotes this plan as "unlimited".

Originally Posted by MobileRC

While I agree with Mark and crew that the Rogers cap needs to be raised, here are some interesting facts:

Existing Rogers customers on the $60/25MB BlackBerry plan use, on average, 2.1 MB of data per month. Even the top 10% of users only average 9 MB per month. In fact, less than one half of one percent of customers on the $60/25MB plan exceeds the 25MB bucket. While customers using the 8700r device use slightly more data, they are still, on average, well below the 25 MB (average use among 8700r customers is 3.3 MB with barely 1% using more than 25 MB in a given month)

[dowlingm]

spindizzy

try bloglines mobile?

[spin-dizzy]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

spindizzy

try bloglines mobile?

Thanks - I'll check it out...although without a way to monitor my usage throughout the month (another shortcoming in my opinion), I'm still nervous about going back to RSS feeds without a truly unlimited plan.

Cheers

[Mark Rejhon]

While it is true that users exceeding 25 megs are still in the minority,
A good listing of how people exceed 25 megs, is listed in the petition at www.rogerspetition.com:

To: Rogers Canada
We want to bring your attention to the 25 megabyte "limit" (cap) on the Rogers $60 Unlimited BlackBerry Data Plan. Many have been charged several hundreds dollars of extra fees per month because of exceeding the "limit" (cap) of the Rogers $60 Unlimited BlackBerry Data Plan. To this date, the Rogers fine print still disclaims the following, as of February 9th, 2006:

"** Rogers Wireless reserves the right to limit usage and charge $7 per additional MB for excessive usage over 25 MB of data per month."

Today, this is no longer acceptable. It is no longer "excessive usage" because of the following reasons:

- This 25 megabyte limit was designed back when BlackBerry only did email. New BlackBerry models do much more than email.
- Modern BlackBerry models transmit much more data, especially the BlackBerry 8700r EDGE model.
- There is no way to self-monitor data usage, until the end of the billing period. It is easy to accidentally exceed the data limit before you receive the bill.
- www.rogers.com still uses the wording "Unlimited"
- Out-of-the-box, modern BlackBerry models support the capability to do full HTML web browsing with images and JavaScript, Yahoo Chat, BlackBerry Messenger, and other software now pre-installed on a BlackBerry that uses more bandwidth. Rogers advertises Yahoo Messenger and BlackBerry Messenger, as well as the full graphical web browsing capability, so this is expected "normal" non-excessive usage of BlackBerry.
- On recent Rogers BlackBerry's, the BlackBerry Internet Browser includes a bookmark labelled "BlackBerry HELP!" that links to wireless downloads for BlackBerry games and BlackBerry picture themes. Two of the games are almost 1 megabyte in size for a wireless download.
- New data-intensive BlackBerry software such as Google Maps Mobile from http://www.google.com/glm can be accessed via BlackBerry Internet Browser.
- Newer versions of BlackBerry email services (BlackBerry Internet Service, BlackBerry Web Client, BlackBerry Enterprise Server) provide full wireless email synchronization, which consumes more data to keep everything synchronized wirelessly.
- 25 mgeabytes is no longer considered "excessive usage" on current models of BlackBerry, especially the model 8700r.
- Treo users have the option of purchasing 100 megabyte Rogers data plan. Rogers does not provide any method of paying for a higher-priced BlackBerry data plan to get a higher data limit.
- Fido Wireless has no data limit. Bell Mobility recently eliminated their 100 megabyte cap. Telus Mobility now offers a 250 megabyte BlackBerry plan for $100 per month.
- It is anti-competitive because Rogers owns Fido, giving Rogers a monopoly on worldphone-capable networks. Fido does not permit consumers to sign up for BlackBerry plans on the Fido network, even though fido is already set up to function with BlackBerry (see https://webclient.blackberry.net/Web....jsp?site=fido for the Fido BlackBerry Login Webpage, which indicates Fido is already set up to function with BlackBerry)
- Rogers permit Fido Unlimited Data users to roam on the Rogers network without the 25 megabyte limit. Also, Rogers permits Treo 100 megabyte plans on the same network. This implies that the Rogers network has sufficient data capacity to support the removal of the 25 megabyte limit.
- International data roaming is $10 per megabyte. Data overage cost is $7 per megabyte. Data overage costs are almost as expensive as international data roaming, just to use the BlackBerry in Canada at reasonable non-exessive levels.
- In the first 3 months of a BlackBerry plan, data overages are waived. This pratice should not legitimize the use of the word "Unlimited", since customers are often hit by unexpected data charges after the first 3 months. Data usage can vary widely and can later surge unexpectedly if a user later decides to download a data-using application such as Google Maps Mobile. Looking at past bills is not a reliable indicator of current or future data usage, since there is no way for the customer to monitor current month's data usage before the end of the billing period.
- BlackBerry is becoming more consumer-friendly. Even RIM has redesigned www.blackberry.com to appeal to non-business users. Therefore, Rogers BlackBerry Data Plans need to be more consumer-friendly and small-business friendly.

In addition, many Rogers and RIM employees as well as Rogers partners are waived of this limit, and do not get charged these data overages. They do not experience the true pain of small businesses and individuals who are subject to the 25 megabyte cap, and are charged several hundred dollars of extra fees per month for exceeding the 25 megabyte "limit" of the Rogers $60 Unlimited BlackBerry Data Plan. Therefore, Rogers Wireless does not get subjected to the necessary pressure to raise the data limit. This indicates that this is discriminatory practice, which hurt consumers and small businesses. Consumers and small businesses have a hard time convincing Rogers about the problems revealed by the 25 megabyte data limit on the Rogers $60 Unlimited BlackBerry Data Plan.

Increasing numbers of users have paid several hundreds, and in some cases more than $1000, during one month for data usage that would have not been charged extra on any other North American carrier on their best BlackBerry data plan. Some customers have posted messages about their Rogers data overage costs at the following forum websites:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1&page=3&pp=27
http://www.blackberryforums.com/showthread.php?p=164173

We, as Rogers customers, Rogers representatives, and Rogers resellers of Rogers products, are all requesting Rogers to do any or all of the following:
(1) Readjust the 25 megabyte limit to more representative industry standard levels. Rogers Canada is the carrier in North America with the lowest data limit on their best Unlimited BlackBerry plan; and/or
(2) Introduce another higher-priced data plan that removes the 25 megabyte limit. This is parallel to the Telus Mobility $100 BlackBerry plan that gives a 250 megabyte data limit; and/or
(3) Remove the wording "Unlimited", because this is no longer an accurate representation of data usage on a modern BlackBerry model 8700r.

Readjusting the BlackBerry plans will help Rogers sell more BlackBerry subscriptions, bring more BlackBerry users online, make the BlackBerry more consumer-friendly, make it easier for Rogers stores to sell BlackBerry, and make it easier for people to switch from Bell/Telus to Rogers. This benefits Rogers Canada, Rogers stores and representatives, and Rogers customers as a whole.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

There is enough bad publicity by the 1% 8700 users to influence maybe 10% of users to avoid the 8700. A complaint goes a long way in scaring away customers - look at many of the petition responses - and that's still a lot of money with Rogers. Just to note, the petition has not ever been advertised in newspapers -- only word of mouth via BlackBerryForums and HowardForums.

The cap is also psychological as well, especially to the top 10% of users if they knew about the dangers of the cap, it's possible each and every one of them may have almost hit 25MB in one month per year, so if you adjust statistics to "Who exceeded 25MB at least ONCE in a year?", the statistic probably will whoppingly jump to 5%. Thanks to careful data management, I only use an average of 15MB per month. However, I have exceeded 25MB about three or four months a year. Rogers is simply using the law of averages; it takes only ONE bad experience with a scary data bill. I am pretty sure that more than 1% have exceeded 25MB once in one year, if the statistic is measured using this metric. If my average usage is only about 15MB per month for the whole year, more-or-less, why penallize me for occasionally exceeding 25MB?

Business users using only email because they were just "assigned a BlackBerry", will likely not exceed 25 MB. But Rogers did not break their survey into indivudual users who actually purchased their BlackBerry for their own use, because of the fancy 8700 features that they want to use, as well as the ability to use third party software. As you can see from the www.myblackberry.com website, RIM is now targetting individual users more than they used to. Rogers hasn't yet quite followed suit to make BlackBerry more individual-friendly.

[Mark Rejhon]

Checking the website, it appears Rogers has essentially "followed" one aspect of the petition -- They removed the "Unlimited" label.

However, the $90 plan is still labelled as "Unltd Data and 350 Wkday & Unltd Eve & Wknd Min".

I think the best we can count on is Rogers finally revamping their data plans when the 8707 comes to Rogers (UMTS / HSDPA BlackBerry). They need to provide a tethering option for that.