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Old 04-10-2008, 04:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by CanuckBB View Post
You do. But the OP does not necessarely have that kind of relationship with either MS or RIM.
Agreed, just be aware that a lot of organizations do ... heck Microsoft gives away free server / application licenses at pretty much every one of their conferences (which are usually free too). I have a few Server 2003 / 2088, Office, and Vista licenses just from the past couple of months...
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:04 PM   #22
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Regarding our relationship with MS or RIM, RIM is a brand new one so really none at all. Regarding MS, i am trying to get my boss to sign up with TechNet (MS partner program) so i can get all of the "free" licenses and software and also the invites to the conferences/workshops that they do all of the time. I have a good relationship personally as i have been a member of TechNet for some time now (from when i ran my own IT consulting business) and have been to a few of their functions.

I *think* what i am going to do is take the unused partition on one of my PE2950s, install VMWare and put my BES VM on that. My other thought is to use the same partition but MS Virtual Server (as i have it running on a test server right now). It's a tough choice for me. Which one is better at resource allocation?

Jeff

Last edited by jeffro01; 04-10-2008 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: Server missquote....
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:28 PM   #23
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Ummm just a curious question (If i'm thinking he's doing what it sounds like)....Why not just install BES on that server and use MSDE (unless you have access to SQL)?

Seems silly to install on OS say Server 2003 on the physical box. Then you install VirtualPC/VMWare on that box. Once its up you install your Virutal Server 2003 OS so you can install BES on that. You would be stuck with only 4GB of memory to spread around the base OS and the Virtuals. So it seems to me that is a very big waste of resources and time that could be better spent.

I would recommend going to ESX. I'm running my ESX Box on a Dell 2950 with 2 dual core processors and 16GB of memory. I have 4 Virtual Servers installed on this box. Two Blackberry Servers with close to 520 users, One SQL 2005 Server and One other called Zenprise which is a Enterprise Blackberry/Exchange Monitoring System. With ESX I can also pool resources (Memory and Processors) between the virtual servers which you can't do with the free versions.

Last edited by Urlryn; 04-10-2008 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:21 PM   #24
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The current hardware wasn't properly utilized to begin with so whats on the PE2950 right now is a piece of software called Deltek that uses a MSDE to function currently, and you can't have more then 1 MSDE going at the same time correct? So i was going to install either VMWare or Virtual Server on top of that existing OS/Deltek install then put the BES with its own MSDE inside the newly created VM.

Thoughts?

ESX is out of the question due to the cost, my boss just will not spend the money. The only way possible, would be if i could take the current OS/Deltek/MSDE install and clone/migrate it to a VM but i don't think you can do that???

Jeff
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:35 PM   #25
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Default BES on ESX

We migrated our BES server to a virtual server - VMWare. We did not migrate our SQL database server, however. Everything has worked great, just so long as proper networking is setup to communicate with the SQL Server from the virtualized BES server.
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Old 04-10-2008, 05:40 PM   #26
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You could probably P2V that server but since you need that server to run the ESX...kinda a catch22 there!

Might be a way to clone it to a image file using Ghost and then get ESX up and running then restoring the image/clone to a virtual. I know it can be done pretty easy with workstations but not quite sure what impact doing it to the server would be.

But I'd double check that with the guru's here first.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urlryn View Post
You could probably P2V that server but since you need that server to run the ESX...kinda a catch22 there!

Might be a way to clone it to a image file using Ghost and then get ESX up and running then restoring the image/clone to a virtual. I know it can be done pretty easy with workstations but not quite sure what impact doing it to the server would be.

But I'd double check that with the guru's here first.
Thanks!!

Can anyone else care to comment about how "easy" it would be to take my physical server install w/ Deltek and MSDE and move it to a virtual machine?

Jeff
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:05 PM   #28
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As someone mentioned, I'd invest the extra money, get ESX and install it on the server then virtualize both the Deltek and BES software. You'd have shared backend memory utilization with both Windows and the MSDE instances and you could even throw up a number of other servers when the time came to put something new online. But that's just me. It may require a look at new server hardware in the long run, but stay on the same architecture (Intel/AMD) and you won't have an issue with simply vmotion'ing (or is it converting now) the server from one host server to the other. Honestly, it's the way to go.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:38 PM   #29
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Ok, thanks for the advice. I just am semi afraid of converting the Deltek physical server to a VM, is there anything i should know? Also how much time do you guys think that conversion would take?

Jeff
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:47 PM   #30
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what's it's current resource requirements (perhaps even the vendor recommended requirements)? does it require a dongle or any other sort of hardware add-ons for anti-piracy purposes? i've never heard of Deltek, to be honest. in a true ESX environment, you can start a P2V conversion and it be completed fairly quickly. however, if you do not know what you're doing, i would look at a more convential (and manual) migratory approach.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:53 PM   #31
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There are no hardware security devices or dongles to speak of. The sys requirements are pretty light and in our situation we are barley even scratching the surface of what the server is capable of.

Due to the time it takes to start a Deltek installation from scratch and such i do not think i would be able to get it done (with all the windows and deltek updates) within my maint. window. Since Deltek is essential to our corp accounting and how our employees enter their time it can not be offline at all during normal business hours.

Jeff
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Old 04-11-2008, 12:12 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jibi View Post
As someone mentioned, I'd invest the extra money, get ESX and install it on the server then virtualize both the Deltek and BES software. You'd have shared backend memory utilization with both Windows and the MSDE instances and you could even throw up a number of other servers when the time came to put something new online. But that's just me. It may require a look at new server hardware in the long run, but stay on the same architecture (Intel/AMD) and you won't have an issue with simply vmotion'ing (or is it converting now) the server from one host server to the other. Honestly, it's the way to go.
That was me. The difference is $500 for a supported config. At on point I ran 12 VM on an ESX box. 2 dual core Xeon at 3GHZ and 8GB RAM. One was my main file server. BES was there. Everything else was 'utility' type servers, Antivirus, net monitor, e-mail marketing, web servers, tht kind ogf stuff. Never had a performance issue.

If your boss balks at $500, I'd start looking at the want ads.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:18 AM   #33
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If your boss balks at $500, I'd start looking at the want ads.
Or, another approach could be to let the boss know that in the future, when it's time to build yet another Win server for some other "got to have it" application, the $500 now is a lot cheaper that the cost of new hardware then. ESX is the way to go. The free version is great for a lab environ.
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:29 AM   #34
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I think he's been sold on the idea for ESX! :D

Problem that needs to be solved now is how to P2V the existing server so he can wipe the server install ESX on it and get the virtual server up and running in the shortest amount of time. No chance of having access to a second server?

Is there a way to P2V from a P2V CD to a backup drive or anything like that to hold the files till he gets ESX installed and move the files over?

Duane
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Old 04-11-2008, 10:47 AM   #35
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Another problem is how would he P2V the existing server as it contains all of his current applications. When you do the P2V, the VM will still contain ALL of his current applications. That would still mean that if he needs to work on the BES all of his applications would be affected. That really diminishes the benefits of ESX.

The ideal solution would be to get a second server and load it with ESX (or the free version if that's all you can swing). Then I would start by building a new VM for each application and doing new installs to break your applications apart. This will help you with future downtime (so when you load the new BES upgrade, you don't have to take down your other apps). You really need to put a solid plan together before you present this idea to your boss. Right now, your boss is only looking at immediate $$. You need to show him that the money spent now will save him money in the future.
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:39 PM   #36
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I agree with Scott's assessment - buy now, save later.
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Old 04-14-2008, 08:03 AM   #37
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FYI many people (myself included) have had nothing but trouble with the free version of VMWare Server. The difference between ESX and VMWare Server is a pretty long list that includes stability, performance, scalability, etc. ESX is the only way to go with production servers, imo.
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