[jdjleo]

Originally Posted by SUFan

I may be misinformed but if RIM wants to get into the consumer market they need to make upgrades, adding MP3's as ringtones etc...easy and simple.

In the politest manner possible...you are misinformed.

Upgrading the o/s is a cakewalk. i did mine after having my device for 2 days. Follow the instructions, which are ridiculously simple and direct, and it it takes maybe an hour. No other device has this advanced level of customization at the o/s level. Not to even get into the RIM software downloads or even the 3rd party support.

I make my own ringtones and use coolservice to get them to the device. This is the epitomy of simple

Same with wallpapers. Hell theres even a webpage that uploads, hosts, AND resizes the pic into a wallpaper for you?

And youknow how much it costs to me to do all this? To tailor my BB exactly to my needs and preference?

ZERO

[SUFan]

jdjleo - that's cool, I appreciate your response and maybe I'll give the upgrade a shot. I am not here to bash but I also just don't seem to have the time lately to follow all of posts on these different topics. I thought I read somewhere that some of the upgrades had gone south for people and ended up creating additional problems with things like car bluetooth systems etc...

Like many others here, we have too many projects and not enough resources. In all fairness, I am also tired of buying technology that requires the customer to spend their time and money fixing problems the vendors should be resolving.

I'm getting way off topic here so I'll stop.

[jdjleo]

Originally Posted by SUFan

I am also tired of buying technology that requires the customer to spend their time and money fixing problems the vendors should be resolving.

*cheers* Im with ya on that one all th way!

The only serious bug in the Cingular o/s i can think of is the "ringer volume linked to the speakerphone volume" problem. Which is actually a pretty serious oversight.

If i had to guess i would say the #1 reason people upgrade is to get the new Zen or Today theme. Not cuz they are unhappy with their carriers o/s.

I have read of people experiencing lousy call quality and reception on BB's and having better experience after upgrading.

But personally i have always had great reception and call quality on my 8700c so i wouldnt know.

[atuarre]

I performed this upgrade early this morning, that way it would not impact myself or my employees and I have already noticed considerable improvements, like how much quickly my stuff reconciles, etc. Thanks for posting the information. I really have not used my phone today. The only thing I hate is having to do enterprise activation, but was able to get a new code this morning, so thats all taken care of. One thing to mark off my busy day.

[takeshi]

Os upgrades are easy but the carriers really do need to be on the ball with updates. It's not an acceptable excuse for any carrier, especially as they would quickly point the finger at the other carrier's OS load.

[stripesace]

I've noticed call degrade with OS updates, downgrade back to Cingular OS, and snowskier79 noticed a HUGE improvement on voice quality, actually hte poeple he called noticed it.

[mextel]

Originally Posted by CrackBerry NYC

I love t-mobile

I'm with you on that one.

So if I upgrade to Telstra, when T-Mo comes out with a newer software what happens than? Also, i'm on the BES 4.1, will that affect anything.

[kitmoni]

Wirelessly posted (Thumpers 8700c: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

Originally Posted by mextel

I'm with you on that one.

So if I upgrade to Telstra, when T-Mo comes out with a newer software what happens than? Also, i'm on the BES 4.1, will that affect anything.

I'm not sure if you have read this thread or not. What happens is that you, the consumer, decide if that upgrade is something of use to you, and you either do it or not. This isn't Windows XP. All of the O/S updates for the 8700 will work with your carrier.

I do agree with the complaint of this thread, however. I have yet to see a carrier do an effective job of supporting their advanced devices. Let's all remember that they are marketing organizations who use technology to get us to do one thing - sign a contract for 2 years. Once we have done that, the need for ongoing support is gone. It is sad, but true.

We should all be thankful for forums like this, and for contributors like Seattle18 (and all the supermods). If you think your time is too tight to perform the upgrade, remember how much time they have spent to make it easy for you (us).

Finally, I recommend the upgrade for Cingular customers. I went to Telstra and it's great!

[SUFan]

Originally Posted by stripesace

I've noticed call degrade with OS updates, downgrade back to Cingular OS, and snowskier79 noticed a HUGE improvement on voice quality, actually hte poeple he called noticed it.

See what I mean...this comment kind of supports my position on vendors stepping up to the plate. Do I waste my valuable time doing an upgrade with unknown outcomes or should the service provider fix their product?

On a related note, I spoke to some former Cingular managers and based on what they told me I wouldn't expect customer support to get better anytime soon. We have users on Verizon and Cingular and to be honest with you they both suck at supporting their customers. Its my understanding they put more emphasis on selling phones in retail outlets than supporting their enterprise customers. Apparently, their profits are driven through sales in their retail stores.

For the other IT professionals out there, we are starting to take a more heavy handed approach with all of our vendors and the buggy products they offer and their questionable support processes.

I must say however that through our support contract with RIM, they do provide the best support of all our vendors.

[jdjleo]

Originally Posted by takeshi

Os upgrades are easy but the carriers really do need to be on the ball with updates. It's not an acceptable excuse for any carrier, especially as they would quickly point the finger at the other carrier's OS load.

Again, the carriers are not responsible for software or updates. RIM provides these. It is up to RIM to evaluate current o/s, and make a decision if bugs in the current o/s and improvements made would justify roling out a new version.

[jdjleo]

Originally Posted by SUFan

profits are driven through sales in their retail stores.

AMEN to that, brother, AMEN!

Can i get a witness?!?!?!

TestiFY!!!

LoLz sorry

[ksellers914]

SUFan, you say, ... Apparently, their profits are driven through sales in their retail stores.

What a novel concept, profits driven through sales in retail stores.

Imagine that!


On topic,..... is Wal Mart responsible for fixing bugs in its products, or is it the
responsibility of the manufacturer of the products? Cingular is not in the business of OS building and repairing. Cingular buys a product to accomodate their service, a product designed and created by another company that is trained and educated on how to design or repair that product. Why do cell companies get held up to a different standard more than any other company or industry? It seems that ALL cell companies bring out everyones whiny inner child, and I only say this because you would never go to any other industry and ask for a company to repair the products it sells, instead of asking the manufacturer to repair the product. Wal Mart is not in the business of repairing TV's, ... but they do sell them. Just an thought, thanks.

[kitmoni]

Wirelessly posted (Thumpers 8700c: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

Great analogy - except that Walmart does not restrict the use of the TV when they sell it to you. They do not say, "You can only watch our channel with this TV" or "You may only use this TV in our stores". In addition, notice the branding on the phones. A TV from Walmart says Samsung on it. A Bb from Cingular says Cingular and Bb on it.

Imagine Walmart selling you a Samsung TV, then discovering that there was no volume. Would you take it to Samsung, or Walmart?

With that said, I don't hold the carriers responsible for creating and delivering bug fixes to us on hardware they don't manufacture. However, the point of this thread is that when several updates and fixes have been released, they should at least offer them to their loyal user base.

[NCBuckeye]

Originally Posted by stripesace

I've noticed call degrade with OS updates, downgrade back to Cingular OS, and snowskier79 noticed a HUGE improvement on voice quality, actually hte poeple he called noticed it.

Thisa is something diffrent I never heard of. I upgraded and think call quality is better. RIM is responsible for the software but if Cingular put some "heat" on them, they would have one a lot quicker.

[egale]

The fact is bug fixes do exist. Who actually puts the carrier specific tweaks into the firmware is anyones guess but I assume it is RIM with input from the carrier.

The average user is never going to upgrade their firmware. They wouldn't even have a clue as to what to do, how to do it, or even what it is. As for the people who do try the upgrade, how many wind up with dead phones? I don't know but I assume it would be enough to cause additional support problems for the carrier.

By the time the carrier is convinced that a newer firmware is necessary and ready for prime time, the phone itself is old hat and everyone is complaining about the new model.

Will Cingular ever release an upgraded firmware? I doubt it. I like many others are tempted to do the upgrade myself but without knowing exactly what specific carrier changes there are, in the other carrier's release, am a little bit afraid to try.

[paulmac]

Yeah, there are some bug fixes that either RIM or Cingular need to address. I cannot seem to get my 8700C to hold onto the TCP/APN settings. I set them correctly, save them, re-boot check and they are there. My IM program works fine, for a while. Then it stops working. I check the APN settings and they are blank again (WTF!!!) I re-set them and then no matter what I cannot get the IM programs to work again. I have used both Ramble and Yak-on and given up on both. I have upgraded, and down graded the OS on the 8700C and the TCP/APN setings and IM programs seem to work for awhile then again stop working. I have given up on using any IM programs as a result.

Previous to owning the 8700C I owned the motorola razr. And it seemed like every month or so a new OS came from either Moto, or Cingular, and I would install them. So Cingular does release new OS for some devices on a regular basis. Not sure why they have abandoned the 8700.

Don't get me wrong, would not give up my 8700 and go back to just a phone. But there are some minor problems that either Cingular or RIM need to address, and they should.

[mightyeric]

Originally Posted by jdjleo

Again, the carriers are not responsible for software or updates. RIM provides these. It is up to RIM to evaluate current o/s, and make a decision if bugs in the current o/s and improvements made would justify roling out a new version.

jdjleo: Sorry, but still no go. Cingular IS responsible for software updates for the devices they sell - again, because of the way they link to RIM's site in a proprietary Cingular context. RIM writes the software to address bug fixes, new features, etc. and makes them available to the carriers for quality testing and release to their customers. Should Cingular test every version (build) RIM releases? no - admittedly way too much work and time.

Should Cingular test 3 or 4 versions per year to address the bugs on their own customer's devices? YES!

Should this be more often to address bugs found in the first few weeks of your (you=Cingular) exclusive offering a device? YES! YES! YES!

Can we recommend unsupported devices to our friends and colleagues? NO!
(because I don't want to support them)

Even if you dropped it to twice a year, we're still waiting...

jdjleo: still - no offence meant to you - we appreciate your help

[jdjleo]

Originally Posted by mightyeric

jdjleo: still - no offence meant to you

Its totally cool man! We arent gonna see eye-to-eye on every little issue. Doesnt mean we arent bros =P

But i appreciate the respect that you took the time to say that. You're the man!

[chrisnol]

Originally Posted by jdjleo

Its totally cool man! We arent gonna see eye-to-eye on every little issue. Doesnt mean we arent bros =P

But i appreciate the respect that you took the time to say that. You're the man!

Now that is the approach and attitude all the forum members should aspire to.

[mightyeric]

Originally Posted by jdjleo

Its totally cool man! We arent gonna see eye-to-eye on every little issue. Doesnt mean we arent bros =P

But i appreciate the respect that you took the time to say that. You're the man!

Of course! It's just so easy to come across as a ranting asshole if you (1) complain about something, and (2) disagree with someone else. I little courtesy goes a long way.

peace out !