[BlackBerryLinks]

Hi All,

I don't understand the discussion. I believe there is not only one solution. Let people look to both and choose what they think is best for their need. For every RIM and GOOD (and other mobile solution) user it is better that there is competition.

This is a BlackBerry forum so, let's discusse about the good and bad thing with the BlackBerry solution.

Close discussion???

Regards,
Bob

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by gdpmumin

Not to hash out an old topic, but i just swicthed providers from Nextel (BB 7100i) to Verizon. I decided to try out a Treo 700w so I can start carrying only one device. Afterall, I can switch it out for a BB 7130e within 15 days if necessary. I have to say my interaction with GoodLink was absolutely horrible. Had it for 12 hours and cancelled the service. You have to use GoodLink's propietary software, which is actually less functional than the standard Windows apps. No filtering on categories, not even the minimal filtering available in the stock apps. And there's no interaction with the Outlook database on the unit, so using thrid party apps (like PocketInformant) doesn't solve the issue.

E-mail was okay, but again GoodLink is a downloaded app. If it somehow gets turned off, or you have to reset your device and forget to start the software, you get no Exchange functionality. I know you can set it to start on reset, but the Treo is short on memory as it is. It's just not a viable option.

Looks like I may be returning to the BB (which will require me to carry two devices again). But I wish they would add categories to the calendar!!

A couple of things. First, thanks for giving it a shot. Secondly, we are not currently supporting the 700W, so, essentially, you are running beta. Good certifies each device since the ROM is different from phone to phone, carrier to carrier. We are currently testing the 700W. This coincides with the fact that you are running a brand new device, with a brand new OS (MSFT, no less). Bleeding edge, early adopters face challenges.

Again, I am glad you gave it a try, though I wish you had tried it on the 650.

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by BlackBerryLinks

Hi All,
This is a BlackBerry forum so, let's discusse about the good and bad thing with the BlackBerry solution.

Note the thread topic Bob.

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

We are not currently supporting the 700W, so, essentially, you are running beta. Good certifies each device since the ROM is different from phone to phone, carrier to carrier. We are currently testing the 700W.

Another reason to like BES over Goodlink?

When the 8700 (newest RIM device) it was supported immediately. No additional testing necessary. No beta, no waiting.

Just a question good_guy... explain why Good wasn't working closer with the Treo folks on this device prior to it's release? Speclation might point to a lack of pre-release partnership? This doesn't make Good look like a market leader, if developers of devices don't at least provide enough pre-market release information and time to allow folks like you to support their devices. It may also suggest that they don't see you as a partner worth working with seriously?

Just MHO

..ok not so H but itis MO

Cheers.

[gdpmumin]

Thanks for the reply, Good_Guy. The first support guy at my hosted exchange service said the 700W was supported. The second said technically not, but they would support it on a "best effort" basis. I did determine that one possible workaround would be to use GoodLink for e-mail (because it's fine for that), and use the OS or a 3rd party app for other PIM stuff and have ActiveSync sync at determined periods. But, that would require me to pay $30 a month just for e-mail accessibility alone ($10 for the e-mail account and $20 for GoodLink); GoodLink is twice as expensive as BES. That's in addition to the data plan.

I can certainly understand the issue with supporting a brand new OS. Perhaps the kinks will get ironed out. In the meantime, my new BB will arrive Tuesday and I should be up and running.

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

A couple of things. First, thanks for giving it a shot. Secondly, we are not currently supporting the 700W, so, essentially, you are running beta. Good certifies each device since the ROM is different from phone to phone, carrier to carrier. We are currently testing the 700W. This coincides with the fact that you are running a brand new device, with a brand new OS (MSFT, no less). Bleeding edge, early adopters face challenges.

Again, I am glad you gave it a try, though I wish you had tried it on the 650.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by BES admin

Another reason to like BES over Goodlink?

When the 8700 (newest RIM device) it was supported immediately. No additional testing necessary. No beta, no waiting.

Just a question good_guy... explain why Good wasn't working closer with the Treo folks on this device prior to it's release? Speclation might point to a lack of pre-release partnership? This doesn't make Good look like a market leader, if developers of devices don't at least provide enough pre-market release information and time to allow folks like you to support their devices. It may also suggest that they don't see you as a partner worth working with seriously?

Just MHO

..ok not so H but itis MO

Cheers.

To your first point, when you have control over the device, the OS and the application, you are obviously going to have a cleaner release, though, reading through the 8700 forum here, there were still issues with the device upon release. That is a definite advantage RIMM has. However, the disadvantage, IMO, is that as a BB user, you are at the complete mercy of RIMM to come out with new devices.

To your question, that is a fair question. We do work with the manufacturers and the OS developers very closely. You have to remember, that each carrier has their own ROM build, so for example, the Treo 650 on Sprint is different from the Treo 650 on Verizon. The 700's ROM wasn't 'cooked' until the just prior to release. I am a realist and understand that there are more Treos used by non-GoodLink users than the reverse. The carriers also understand this point. They are not going to hold a device release until a certain application can run on it.

By not being in control of all aspects of the development, we are at the whims of the developers, especially now with Windows Mobile. We are much more involved now than we were a year ago, however, MSFT is not concerned with GoodLink being able to run on their OS as Palm or the carriers. It is something we have to live with.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by gdpmumin

Thanks for the reply, Good_Guy. The first support guy at my hosted exchange service said the 700W was supported. The second said technically not, but they would support it on a "best effort" basis. I did determine that one possible workaround would be to use GoodLink for e-mail (because it's fine for that), and use the OS or a 3rd party app for other PIM stuff and have ActiveSync sync at determined periods. But, that would require me to pay $30 a month just for e-mail accessibility alone ($10 for the e-mail account and $20 for GoodLink); GoodLink is twice as expensive as BES. That's in addition to the data plan.

I can certainly understand the issue with supporting a brand new OS. Perhaps the kinks will get ironed out. In the meantime, my new BB will arrive Tuesday and I should be up and running.

As I said, I am glad you gave it a shot. We have only recently stepped into the hosted arena and the providers have made it a bit pricey, IMO. I think that will work out eventually. If they (the hosting provider) decide to support the 700, even in a limited basis, that is their decision, though I kind of wish they didn't as it causes cases like yours to occur.

Good luck with your new BB.

[aau007]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

As I said, I am glad you gave it a shot. We have only recently stepped into the hosted arena and the providers have made it a bit pricey, IMO. I think that will work out eventually. If they (the hosting provider) decide to support the 700, even in a limited basis, that is their decision, though I kind of wish they didn't as it causes cases like yours to occur.

Good luck with your new BB.

Hosted GoodLink is not more expensive than hosted BES. I think some providers are pricing themselves out of the market for certain reasons. I know the pricing for Hosted GL and $30 per month is definitely a ripoff. The specific provider is only trying to price themselves out but for certain reasons must list GL as an option. I think a $15 to $20 price point for GL on top of the Hosted Exchange service is more appropriate.

[aau007]

Originally Posted by BES admin

When the 8700 (newest RIM device) it was supported immediately. No additional testing necessary. No beta, no waiting.

No kidding!!! :O No wonder Microsoft supports WM5 once they released it. :O

Originally Posted by BES admin

Just a question good_guy... explain why Good wasn't working closer with the Treo folks on this device prior to it's release? Speclation might point to a lack of pre-release partnership? This doesn't make Good look like a market leader, if developers of devices don't at least provide enough pre-market release information and time to allow folks like you to support their devices. It may also suggest that they don't see you as a partner worth working with seriously?

Just MHO

..ok not so H but itis MO

Cheers.

I know this is not my question but I can't help jumping in. You are asking why GL does not have partnership with device manufacturers similar to Blackberry (who makes both the software and the hardware themselves)?

The best thing I liked about GL was being able to run GL on the older 957 RIM device. I had diehard Blackberry fans' eyeballs popping out when they saw the GL logo on the 957. Too bad GL did not pursue that same route on the Blackberry 7200 series.

[compudude]

Just my 2 cents on BB vs. GL cost...

I did a head-to-head comparison/cost analysis last year before my company rolled out BES, and found that they were virtually identically priced as far as initial costs go (server licesne, cals, support, etc.), but year two and beyond was a diffrent story.

Good pretty much wanted us to pay what it cost to get things going in renewed support costs, while with BB we just would pay a relatively small support renewal. I brought my findings to the GL sales guy, and he stated that GL does this as opposed to BB's method of extracting revenue from the carrier's monthly charge. However, when we did the math, BB was cheaeper to run year two and beyond.

Also, from an administrator's view point, I like the fact that our users have to pick a BB device that we know is fully compitable with the BES, versus a hodge podge of Pocket PC based devices that we'd then have to support.

....Just my two cents....

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by aau007

I know this is not my question but I can't help jumping in. You are asking why GL does not have partnership with device manufacturers similar to Blackberry (who makes both the software and the hardware themselves)?

This is exactly my point. Your statemet underscores, IMO, why BES is the better solution all around. From end-to-end RIM suppots everything and as such, they don't need to have a partnership with anyone else in order for their advertised product to work on devices it was designed for.

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by compudude

Just my 2 cents on BB vs. GL cost...

I did a head-to-head comparison/cost analysis last year before my company rolled out BES, and found that they were virtually identically priced as far as initial costs go (server licesne, cals, support, etc.), but year two and beyond was a diffrent story.

We found the same thing to be true in our initial decision making process.

Originally Posted by compudude

Also, from an administrator's view point, I like the fact that our users have to pick a BB device that we know is fully compitable with the BES, versus a hodge podge of Pocket PC based devices that we'd then have to support.

As a support person and as the Sole BES admin in our company, AMEN to that!!

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

However, the disadvantage, IMO, is that as a BB user, you are at the complete mercy of RIMM to come out with new devices.

I think this is something that sparks controversy about the core of the direction of two camps. The first camp is the Business camp, the other is the Personal/gadget oriented camp.

As a solution support person I aim to accomplish one thing: Advance the business with the best tools available, not the newest, not the coolest, not the most feature rich, but the best. I think RIMM focuses on developing end-to-end solutions which aid support personel in providing their companies with this in mind.

The gadget people, simply want status, features, convesation starters, CAMERAS, etc. It doesn't mean they are interested in doing anything with their devices, it's just these people like gadgets.

Now, as a guy, in the tech field, I like gadgets, and the Treo was a cool gadget for about three days, until I started trying to use it for my business, which is focused around e-mail delivery. My camera phone by motorola with Blue tooth was cool for about three weeks until it got to be a pain in the butt to plug it in every night (or it wouldn't make it past 10am the enxt day without another charge). I chose Blackberry 7290, then the 7100g then and finally the 8700c as my device of choce for coolness and functionality. Iam pleased all around. As a business person, I don't care how long it is before RIMM and Cingular come out with a new device, I can do all I need to easily with what i have. As a gadget guy, I hope they come out with a new device this summer.

[BES admin]

Is there a way to have rules files active and running on exchange that move messages to subfolders BUT have all of the same messages come into goodlink on my treo into the INBOX?
This is possible on our bes server, and it would just be so much easier then having to navigate to all of the subs on the treo.

Goodlink: NO

RIM: YES


Is there a spell checker program that will work with in GL ?

Goodlink: NO

RIM: YES

[aau007]

BES admin,

I can see that you are a hardcore RIM person. The two companies have 2 different products with different philosophy and approach to similar target (providing portable email). There are going to be differences and at the end is up to the end users to justify which is the best solution to them. I have used both of them together for months now and have likes and dislikes on each of them. You seem to have pointed out many good points on BES. Are you able to give examples of where GoodLink excels over BES? Your analogy of different 'camps' seems to suggest that BES is 'the' answer to businesses whereas GL is a toy for gadget lovers with little business value. Many larger enterprises nowadays have setup for both BES and GoodLink, which is an indication that both of them have their own values in businesses and one solution does not necessarily fit all.

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by aau007

I can see that you are a hardcore RIM person.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by aau007

The two companies have 2 different products with different philosophy and approach to similar target (providing portable email). There are going to be differences and at the end is up to the end users to justify which is the best solution to them.

I think a more accurate revised statement might be: The two companies each have products which comptete with one another to deliver e-mail in a variety of ways to a portable device.

Originally Posted by aau007

...up to the end users to justify which is the best solution to them.

Umm, no, that's how it works in the non-business world. In the business world the Business decides the device.

Originally Posted by aau007

I have used both of them together for months now and have likes and dislikes on each of them.

I can appreciate that. I am sure everyone has an opinion on each product... That's why I began this thread. Please point out your likes and dislikes in future posts, if there are more than already posted.

Originally Posted by aau007

You seem to have pointed out many good points on BES. Are you able to give examples of where GoodLink excels over BES?

Nope. Hence my pro RIMM position. ok, I'll concede that yes there are a larger variety of devices available, but as most people who have been following this thread have heard me say before, this isn't a good thing to the support side, just to the gadget people. So that;s my gadget side talking.

Originally Posted by aau007

Your analogy of different 'camps' seems to suggest that BES is 'the' answer to businesses whereas GL is a toy for gadget lovers with little business value.

I meant to suggest no such thing. It's the choice we made. The one I recomend to other businesses similar to ours and who have similar goals for supporting devices and users as ours. There is never any ONE solution for every business or enterprise.

Originally Posted by aau007

Many larger enterprises nowadays have setup for both BES and GoodLink, which is an indication that both of them have their own values in businesses and one solution does not necessarily fit all.

Agreed. These enterprises made the decision to support both for good reason I hope, and not simply to satisfy every CEO, CIO, and VP who had their personal preferance on devices. Good luck to the smaller IT support staff at these facilities, they are gonna need it with all the devices they have to learn and support.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by compudude

Just my 2 cents on BB vs. GL cost...

I did a head-to-head comparison/cost analysis last year before my company rolled out BES, and found that they were virtually identically priced as far as initial costs go (server licesne, cals, support, etc.), but year two and beyond was a diffrent story.

Good pretty much wanted us to pay what it cost to get things going in renewed support costs, while with BB we just would pay a relatively small support renewal. I brought my findings to the GL sales guy, and he stated that GL does this as opposed to BB's method of extracting revenue from the carrier's monthly charge. However, when we did the math, BB was cheaeper to run year two and beyond.

Our pricing model has completely changed since last year. We have revamped our sales model to be more along the lines of BB. We had an annual subscription model when we sold direct and then, when we signed with the carriers, we moved to a monthly model similar to BB.

[bbcruiser]

Great topic here. I have been reading on this RIM issue for quite some time. I wonder how many companies are kicking themselves for being stuck with all these blackberries that can only run RIM software. I think both solutions are good for what they do but in the longrun Good will win hands down. RIM has no way of making their devices better and it is completely evident. As they try to compete with NOKIA, MOTOROLA, HP, HTC and so on, we will see that its not that these(treo's) are cool gadgets but they are able to do more and helps some keep their laptops at home or in the office. I wish I could use my BB to run a presentation wirelessly, listen to some of my favorite MP.3's, store all my files on the SD card a device; Shall I go on. RIM has created this market but all good things come to an end and their days are numbered Thanks to GOOD and NTP.

Bye the WAY NTP SUCKS.........

[gdpmumin]

Hosted Exchange plans generally run just under $10/month. BES is an additional $10 (for a total of $20/month) and GoodLink is an additional $20 (for a total of $30/month). So you're right on in terms of your estimated pricing, aau007. Sorry if I indicated GoodLink alone was $30/month plus Hosted Exchange.

Originally Posted by aau007

Hosted GoodLink is not more expensive than hosted BES. I think some providers are pricing themselves out of the market for certain reasons. I know the pricing for Hosted GL and $30 per month is definitely a ripoff. The specific provider is only trying to price themselves out but for certain reasons must list GL as an option. I think a $15 to $20 price point for GL on top of the Hosted Exchange service is more appropriate.

[BES admin]

Originally Posted by bbcruiser

I wonder how many companies are kicking themselves for being stuck with all these blackberries that can only run RIM software.

The ones who did the research and knew what they were getting themselves into certainly are not regretting it.

bbcruiser, why don't you start a post asking who is currently regretting having purchased the RIM solution and see what kind of response you get. Would be interesting.

Originally Posted by bbcruiser

I think both solutions are good for what they do but in the longrun Good will win hands down. RIM has no way of making their devices better and it is completely evident.

This statement is just plain ignorant not to mention grossly inaccurate.

Neither company is going to win hands-down and RIM continues to improve their products on a regular basis. The most recent device improvement was a little one called the 8700c? don't know if you heard of it, but ask around and see if it's an improvement. The server side software is updated regularly as well. The next big release due out around March.

Originally Posted by bbcruiser

I wish I could use my BB to run a presentation wirelessly, listen to some of my favorite MP.3's, store all my files on the SD card a device; Shall I go on.

I never heard anyone who uses a PDA of any sort wish they could run a presentation of any kind from a handheld. That's what laptops were made for.

MP3's are personal use items and have no place in a business application or device. If you want to play MP3's get an MP3 player.

In our company, we consider the SD card a security risk. Any data stored on such a card is completely out of the reach of administrator's who need to wipe a handheld remotely. So again, this isn't something that alot of business oriented people will be interested in.

Originally Posted by bbcruiser

RIM has created this market but all good things come to an end and their days are numbered.

Yes, and the end of the world is coming next week, make sure you mark the date in your calendar and make the appropriate plans. (shaking head in disbelief)