[Semi5]

Originally Posted by johnblackmon

I said "the platform is not in my opinion a good target for developers of business-oriented applications".

SAP, Oracle, Business Objects, and others disagree. They all have or will have business app in the store. Others are in the works.

[johnblackmon]

Originally Posted by Semi5

SAP, Oracle, Business Objects, and others disagree. They all have or will have business app in the store. Others are in the works.

I am going to give Oracle the benefit of the doubt and assume that the app they have in the store right now was not intended as a joke. Something a bit more substantial would be necessary to change my opinion.

[thecharlie]

I thought I was set in picking up the Bold, but numetheus really started to change my mind. I already have a .mac/mobileme account, and my primary computer is a Mac. I owned an unlocked iPhone, and enjoyed it, but I absolutely hated the virtual keypad. I decided to switch over to the Curve and had mixed feelings about it. The browser is quite inferior to the iPhone, and my .mac email doesn't handle as well on the Curve, but typing on the phone is brillant.

Now that the 3G iPhone is out, I can't help but to re-consider it. I will definitely miss the PIN messaging, but I feel the iPhone handles everything else a bit better than the Bold will at release.

Should there be something else I should consider about the Bold before purchasing the iPhone?

[davistld01]

Having toggled back and forth between the 2G iPhone and the BlackBerry several times...before finally selling my third iPhone to settle on the 8310 Curve, I am in awe every day of how effective and practical the BlackBerry is. It does everything I need it to, with only one or two scrolls of the trackball and a click...where the same tasks with the iPhone would take a slide, then three or four taps to do...and none of it could be accomplished with one hand!!

I must admit, that with the hoopla surrounding the release of the 3G iPhone today...my mobile phone OCD kicked a little, and I thought about picking one up just to give the iPhone another chance. But, each time I would grab my Curve and do something with it...I would just smile to myself, and realize that I would only get tired of the iPhone in a few days...and come back to BlackBerry again.

My next phone will be the BlackBerry Bold. I really like the larger size, added weight, faster processor, 3G functionality, larger & clearer screen, and the new OS. Plus...I really still appreciate a tactile-responsive qwerty keyboard over a virtual one...

The iPhone is cool...but it's just not a BlackBerry.

[joginder]

Originally Posted by kmccarthy

LOL. What will you do with all these phones :p

Well, I am one of those BB users who carry a separate phone for voice and BB only for Data. If NK E71 works for me then that will be one device that I a planning to carry. Still it will be very very hard to get away from BB. it is not the device it is the prestige and buzz that goes around about BB.
will see

[Andyn]

When I asked this question a few weeks ago I was a little torn; but after this:
OK, let's look at todays debacle with the iPhone. It was proven today, don't release the iPhone in 23 countries at the same time. Server Crash! The BOLD could be released in 23 countries as any other BB and I guarantee no server crash. The BOLD as I understand it will have similar browser to allow you to watch YOUTUBE if you wish, it will have 3G speed ( if you're lucky enough to be in a market that actually has it).

Keyboard- I had the original iPhone for about two weeks- keyboard is horrible- the one you have to make appear on the screen- kept hitting adjacent keys.

I think AT&T needs to go ahead and release the BOLD to make everyone forget about the horrible PR Nightmare today and I think it would be a smart marketing move for RIM to insist upon it to show the world that you can copy us, but you can't beat us.
I mean, c'mon, the MobileMe even crashed and some people to downloaded the patch for their old iPhones found them to be rendered useless.
For Pete's sake, Apple had to give the first person in line at their SF store today a FREE Phone because it took them 4 hours to activate his phone.
Several people had to go home and finish their activation and countless people had to sign up to have their phones delivered to them at home next week.
Are you kidding? The AT&T store in SF only received 100 phones? And APPLE salespeople were having to walk customers across the street to activate their phones!
I have a government account. I send my rep an e mail and my BB (Verizon and AT&T are at my office the next working day. I back them up, remove SIM Card (AT&T) OTA (Verizon) sync them w/ my exchange accounts and I am active.

MY CHOICE: BOLD

[atuarre]

Originally Posted by Andyn

When I asked this question a few weeks ago I was a little torn; but after this:
OK, let's look at todays debacle with the iPhone. It was proven today, don't release the iPhone in 23 countries at the same time. Server Crash! The BOLD could be released in 23 countries as any other BB and I guarantee no server crash. The BOLD as I understand it will have similar browser to allow you to watch YOUTUBE if you wish, it will have 3G speed ( if you're lucky enough to be in a market that actually has it).

Keyboard- I had the original iPhone for about two weeks- keyboard is horrible- the one you have to make appear on the screen- kept hitting adjacent keys.

I think AT&T needs to go ahead and release the BOLD to make everyone forget about the horrible PR Nightmare today and I think it would be a smart marketing move for RIM to insist upon it to show the world that you can copy us, but you can't beat us.
I mean, c'mon, the MobileMe even crashed and some people to downloaded the patch for their old iPhones found them to be rendered useless.
For Pete's sake, Apple had to give the first person in line at their SF store today a FREE Phone because it took them 4 hours to activate his phone.
Several people had to go home and finish their activation and countless people had to sign up to have their phones delivered to them at home next week.
Are you kidding? The AT&T store in SF only received 100 phones? And APPLE salespeople were having to walk customers across the street to activate their phones!
I have a government account. I send my rep an e mail and my BB (Verizon and AT&T are at my office the next working day. I back them up, remove SIM Card (AT&T) OTA (Verizon) sync them w/ my exchange accounts and I am active.

MY CHOICE: BOLD

The AT&T store I was at only had 20 iPhones. I did not get one, after waiting two hours in line. A store in Kansas city, an ATT corporate store, only had 4 iPhones. So...Apple hypes the phone up, and then does not have enough supply to meet demand? Yes, I agree. The Bold needs to come, so I can upgrade my Curve. They had the police there at the store I was at to quell the upset people who had to leave. They also had AT&T reps selling more than one phone to one person. One guy purchased three iPhones. I thought AT&T outlined that iPhone's were supposed to only be sold to one person at a time. I guess the guy offered to establish 2 extra lines of service.

Once again, this proves that Apple and AT&T aren't prepared when they should be.

[atuarre]

Originally Posted by thecharlie

I thought I was set in picking up the Bold, but numetheus really started to change my mind. I already have a .mac/mobileme account, and my primary computer is a Mac. I owned an unlocked iPhone, and enjoyed it, but I absolutely hated the virtual keypad. I decided to switch over to the Curve and had mixed feelings about it. The browser is quite inferior to the iPhone, and my .mac email doesn't handle as well on the Curve, but typing on the phone is brillant.

Now that the 3G iPhone is out, I can't help but to re-consider it. I will definitely miss the PIN messaging, but I feel the iPhone handles everything else a bit better than the Bold will at release.

Should there be something else I should consider about the Bold before purchasing the iPhone?

You either want to purchase the phone or not. Trying to get people to try to entice you to wait for the Bold is just a way for you to feel secure in you decision should you decide to purchase, or not to purchase the iPhone. IMO, if you don't have many handsets, like I do, and have to make a decision, I'd wait for the Bold. The Bold should have been released, but AT&T wants to play the numbers game and thinks that Bold will cut into iPhone's sales. I have eight handsets total. I have an iPhone, two Blackberries, and other phones. I would have been contempt with the Bold. Maybe they will release it August 1st. Who knows. I will definitely be purchasing it, and there won't be lines.

[PPCMD]

Originally Posted by sjohns2

I didn't read below your post, so it's probably already been said. Anyway, no this won't happen to the Bold because there will not be near the demand for the Bold as there is for the iPhone 3G. I will GUARANTEE that there will be no long lines forming in EVERY store for the Blackberry Bold. I think the Bold will sell very well and I know it's going to be a great product, but it won't have the marketing hype like the iPhone 3G. I've never seen anything like the hype for this phone, and even if you don't like it, I think it does live up to the hype. I love Blackberry, but the iPhone is a great device.

The problem truly rests with Steve Jobs unrelenting control over every facet of the Apple and particularly iPhone world. The problems with iPhone 1.0 should have been clear warning enough that Apple should have been ready, after all they had over a year to get ready.

The Bold won't have lines of mass hysteria waiting at the stores because the orders for the BB Bold will be made my corp entities in the mass quantities. The BB World has predominantly been the corp world and has been expanding into the consumer world.

I am not familiar with what RIM does to activate my BB other than the fact I register it myself on AT&T BIS site and its done.

Those who wanted the iPhone will get it and hopefully their time spent waiting in baking sun will be rewarded. For me I know my time spent waiting as I go about my daily life until the BB Bold arrives will be well spent as I walk right into the AT&T store ask for the BB Bold and walk out in about 10 minutes with my new phone.

Life is full of choices and I choose mine carefully, I love my MAC's but I choose to keep my life running on a BlackBerry

[PPCMD]

Originally Posted by JG in SB

The iPhone is a great device and suits some people's needs really well. I have never been one to get caught up in iPhone vs. Bold arguments, and today is no exception.

So why do I have this strange feeling of mild annoyance/irritation this morning when I see a bunch of front page news articles about people camping out for the new iPhone, activation problems, etc.?

I think it is the same feeling I have when I see people hysterically flock to participate in any new "craze" or "fad". I admire Steve Job's ability to generate this type of hysteria for Apple's mass-consumer products (i.e. iPods and iPhones, not computers). But it blows me away that so many people feel like they "have to have an iPhone" that, even when the economy here in the USA and around the world is in piss-poor shape, they are camping out for the priveledge of forking over a few hundred bucks to, in many cases, replace a phone that they have had for less than a year (i.e. their current 1st generation iPhone). Thank goodness for economic stimulus checks.

I have in the past, and currently, use some Apple products, including the latest generation iPod Nano. This particular device was also the subject of mass-hysteria-buying, and a huge amount of media attention, although not to the extent of the iPhone. When I watched Jobsy present the new Nano and say how amazing it was because it could play videos, I remember thinking to myself "Is this guy totally unaware of the fact that there are already a bunch of portable media players available that have offered that feature for a while now?". The Nano is OK I guess. It works well, but it isn't substantially better in any particular criteria than previous non-Apple mp3 players I have used. And in some areas, it is inferior. Society has made the iPod "iconic", and it really is a well designed device. But is it worthy of the media coverage, and mass-hysteria buying that occurs when a new version is released? I don't know.

Again, I have nothing against iPhones, Apple, or Steve Jobs. It is the media's and consumers' unmitigated, almost-religiously faithful gushing over this new product that irritates me. I still am not sure why, but I guess it has to do with the iPhone getting such an overwhelming amount of media attention, and consumer-worship, when it really isn't that revolutionary of device, and basically does things that other devices have been doing for a long time.

I am sure Numetheus will have something to say about this

Very well put and I have to agree with you. Jobs is the PT Barnum of our day, every time he talks about a new Apple product I want to get one, that is except for the iPhone I just don't feel the draw to it. I will be getting a few new MACs once I hear what is announced at MAC World 2009.

[PPCMD]

Originally Posted by numetheus

The iPhone is something that everyone wants to be like. Go to pocketgear and search for the sheer number of software that tries to mimic the iPhone look, interface, functionality. Look at the sheer number of devices that try to mimic the device. Just about EVERY manufacturer is trying to create something "like" the iPhone or an iPhone killer, and this includes RIM. This is way beyond consumer-worship at that point.

How is iPhone NOT revolutionary. Straight from the dictionary:

The iPhone changed the way most new phones look, including how people interact with them. Before iPhone there were really no "finger-primary" phones. There was not as much a movement on desktop-like web browsing until iPhone came out, now everyone has improved their browsers to be better to compete with Safari. iPhone has shaped the future of phones and their capabilities, and is sought after and mimicd by everyone and yet still stands alone. Exactly how is this not revolutionary? Be every definition I have found, the iPhone is just that. Regardless of your bias against it, there is no denying that they have sparked a movement in touch screen devices.

I would agree that the iPhone was revolutionary in 2007 but it is now evolutionary in 2008. Apple made a big splash and woke up the consumer world and the other phone manufacturers said "we are dead unless we innovate, quick make us look better". A year later some are still trying and their v1.0 are getting mocked at, but I see them as v1.0 offerings and good attempts for what they are.

Back to the iPhone being revolutionary. The OS is continuing to evolve and improve but the improvements in 2008 are what SHOULD have been there in 2007. The 3G radio, well in case most have not looked AT&T does NOT have the best 3G coverage in the US when you look at the whole US not just major cities. Now luckily for me I have 3G where I work so I'm pretty happy.

Really what Steve did was add A-GPS and 3G and a PLASTIC case (needed for better radio reception) but that's it. The shape is the same the v2.0 software can be downloaded for FREE (once the servers get back up to running properly).

Some day I may become an iPhone user not because the mass market is buying them but because it will become a good corp phone on par with the BlackBerry, but for now I choose the BlackBerry.

[Blackberryer]

All of this dissertation and deconstruction on the lives of people who buy iPhones or The Meaning Of It All is silly. Those folks you see in line, or the ones who waited up all night are the anomaly, not the norm of the majority who buy iPhones, or any device for that matter. Millions of people are going to purchase an iPhone by simply walking into a store, paying money, and leaving with their new device. They will then use it to make calls, browse the internet, play games, and send email during the course of their no doubt busy day. That's it. They won't stand in lines all day, they won't run out and Mac-itize their entire homes. They certainly won't run to their nearest message board catering to love of devices and lecture about the poor human condition and billions spent on marketing to make us all consumerist sheep. They'll go about living their lives, using their new purchase as part of that life, not center their life around it.

All of this nonsense about brainwashing and the like rings especially hollow from users of a device that is regularly referred to in the same vein as a drug addiction ("Crackberry," anyone?)

It's remarkable to me how personal so many of you have taken this discussion. You're the ones that need to grasp the idea that it's only a device, and not your life.

[bigpenadog2004]

You might be able to get a free bold.

blackberryforums.com/general-blackberry-discussion/139623-1-000-000-post-final-contest-win-blackberry-bold.html#post1011735

[janarasalingam]

In truth this isnt even a question the obvious answer is neither. Its simply a choice of your own preferences. If you feel that you are more business oriented but like media at the side, and prefer a solid QWERTY keyboard then the Bold is your obvious choice. If you are completely media oriented, with some business features then the iPhone is the choice for you. But as you can see this isn't even a choice, the true question is which would you choose: BlackBerry Thunder/Storm or iPhone 3G....since they both carry touchscreen navigation systems and they're on the same playing field.

[ash_786]

Had a play with the Iphone 3G today.

Apps run well, Speed is incredible and the browsing is wonderful.

The only problem that I have with it is that damn virtual keyboard, in fact my hands started to hurt after abit.

Also I couldnt browse to attachments to attach them to an email, I had to open the file in the App that was associated with the document or picture and then send it from there.

As a business tool I think its a pain in the arse, but as multimedia gadget theres probably nothing thats going to touch it.

Final word ...... Come on Blackberry BOLD !

[TheBigNewt]

I'm interested in the iPhone 3g and the Bold (I only have one phone) and will wait for the Bold to make a decision. Yesterday's release teed customers off in order for Apple to get
free press, a weak strategy. And the 3G won't set any sales records either, the 1.0 didn't meet their targets, they dropped the price, upped the charges, tweaked the phone, and are gonna try again to make sales goals. Apple hasn't sold a fraction of what RIM has sold since the iPhone came out, not even close, and that won't change this year either. But it's a cool phone and I'll consider it soon. Apples goal is 1 percent of the phone market, hardly significant IMO. Their iPod is their bread and butter, computers/laptops second, phone a distant third. The phone's big thing is that it has potential and it keeps their cutting edge image alive (for awhile anyway) for people to talk about. They got into the phone business really late.

[bostonnerd]

Originally Posted by ash_786

Had a play with the Iphone 3G today.

Apps run well, Speed is incredible and the browsing is wonderful.

The only problem that I have with it is that damn virtual keyboard, in fact my hands started to hurt after abit.

Also I couldnt browse to attachments to attach them to an email, I had to open the file in the App that was associated with the document or picture and then send it from there.

As a business tool I think its a pain in the arse, but as multimedia gadget theres probably nothing thats going to touch it.

Final word ...... Come on Blackberry BOLD !

I (finally) got my Ipod Touch updated with the latest firmware. A few early observations. Note, these are my opinions, and YMMV

The good:
* Apps are indeed amazing. Beautiful presentation and very full featured. I downloaded a few of the free ones:
* Weatherbug - just like the PC desktop client. Realtime wind speed and direction, radar, and its location based even on the Touch. Great for frequesnt travelers.
* Internet radio apps. Loaded AOL radio and a few others. Very good streaming radio and completely free

The SDK looks like it is great for rapid application development. Also seems to be very easy to use the comms APIs compared to the Blackberry.

* Exchange Activesync - took me about 5 minutes to provision this. Although I've used a BB for years I still had an account for some WM testing I did for IT a long time ago. Sync across email contacts, and calender is quick and flawless.

The Bad
* No Outlook Task or Notes support with sync. This is a non starter for me as I live and die by Outlook Tasks.
* Contact search is cumbersome without a hard keyboard. With the BB just start typing the name...

* I still cannot get used to the %(*)) keyboard! I'm sure others can and I'm also sure with practice I would be able to as well. But, as I get dozens of emails that need my reply, I don't have the time to practice (although I will try with the Touch)
* International data roaming - take a look at the iPhone international data plan. Not only expensive but only covers around 35 countries. While most, but not all of my work travel is covered, my favorite vacation spots are not (Aruba, Barbados, ST Johns, etc). Definitely a pricing issue to factor in.

The Ugly
Actually, there is no ugly . The iPhone/Touch platform is very compelling for many, many people outside the Enterprise. I would expect RIM to see a slide in the number of new BIS users over the next few quarters. As to BES....I expect minimal impact for RIM, but a bloodbath for WM, Nokia, and Palm.

The debate between the two platforms is a waste of time. Both are excellent examples of well designed software and hardware engineering that will appeal to different people (with some overlap). Both will be quite successful and the competition will be good for all.

[kerph32]

iphone: one night stand
blackberry: marriage

[zkyevolved]

Originally Posted by Rat_Boy

Maybe I am stupid or something, but what MORON would pay $395 for a 1st Gen Iphone right now?

Lol, really? Tons of people Check out ebay

[Alex Alexzander]

I switched from BlackBerry to iPhone about 6 or 7 months ago. I am not 100% sure when, but it's been a good while. At the time I switched, I had been running the following apps for the RIM:

Mail
Calendar
Address Book
ToDoMatrix
TeleNav
FaceBook
JiveTalk (actually was using SMS more)
RepliGo
Ascendo DataVault

That was pretty much my world on the iPhone.

And the cost were pretty high.

I rented Exchange and BES services from Mai2Web which provided just 1 GB of storage for $14.95, plus $14.95 for BlackBerry Enterprise Services for PUSH. And back on my AT&T bill I had the $44.95 data plan for BES, plus $9.95 for TeleNav. Many other aspects are cost equal on the iPhone so I won't go into those.

Today I am using the following on the iPhone:

Mail
Calendar
Address Book
OmniFocus (better than ToDoMatrix in my opinion)
GoogleMaps
AIM (SMS mostly still)
Splash ID
Weather
Stocks
Safari
iTunes Store
Apps Store
Photo Album
FaceBook
Loopt
iTrans BART
Ultralingua (dictionary and thesaurus)
Bejeweled 2
Monkey Ball
MotoRacer
Ms. PackMan
Tetris
Quick Voice Record
AppleTV / iTunes Remote
Google Reader
SplashMoney
PayPal
Ebay
Band of America

And here is the thing, my Mail is MobileMe. It's $99 a year, often less, and it's 20 GBs rather than the 1 GB I got from Mail2Web. PUSH is free. That means rather than $360 a year for PUSH email, calendar, address book, with 1 GB, I get 20 GBs with much the same service for just $99.

TeleNav

I used this almost always in pedestrian mode. And often if I am in downtown San Francisco, where I needed it most, it failed. The buildings are simply too high and block the signal. It did work well in my residential area. No complaints there. But with the iPhone and it's fake GPS from the 1st gen iPhone, it was far better. It always works, and it works faster because it gets it's location from a database of WiFi and Cell Tower triangulation. Because of this, it works even indoors. Something my BlackBerry could never do. Now with iPhone 3G, we iPhone users get both. I just don't see BlackBerry competing here.

FaceBook on the iPhone is very clean. A very nice app. The BlackBerry has the easy photo upload feature over the iPhone, but overall the iPhone version is much nicer.

AIM on iPhone vs. JiveTalk on BlackBerry.

As many of you know, Apple decided not to allow background apps. Apple's solution to knowing when you have an IM while not running AIM in the background is to have a service push which tells you that you have an IM. It works much the way SMS works. That feature is not going to hit the iPhone until a September update is released. So for now, JiveTalk is easily the better app as it runs in the background and you can leave it on.

AIM is also just AIM, where as JiveTalk is AIM, YIM, MSN, Google, and more.

SMS on the iPhone is far better than BlackBerry though. It's all threaded, and separated by conversation. As I still use SMS the most, and simply forward my AIM to SMS when I am not on AIM I am not truly affected. However, since SMS is not free, and JiveTalk is a one-time fee, it's still wins because of price and services offered.

RepliGo:

Now this is actually a very sore point with me and the BlackBerry. I am very sorry to write this about the app as I am sure those developers do their best. But RepliGo, and all others like it are absolutely the worst of the BlackBerry world. Ever since leaving the Treo for the BlackBerry, I had to endure with such garbage software. RepliGo's ability to see a wide excel document are it's biggest problem. If a document is wide, the entire with is take as a page width, and a snap-shot is made. You view that snap shot as a viewer version of the excel sheet and it's so hopelessly blurry it's not even worth using. PDF support is okay at best. Word is okay as well.

The iPhone has all of these beat easily. PDFs, JPGs, Excel documents, Word, etc are all incredibly perfect on the iPhone. I routinely approve layouts and graphics right on the phone because it can be done without any fear. I would never approve a PDF based on what I saw on the BB. thousands of dollars could be lost.

Ascendo DataVault. These guys are awesome. They added really cool features to DataVault so that I could email records through email. My hat is still off to these guys. Fantastic software. Splash ID is almost as good, but DataVault still wins. And I saw that pretty much because of the email record feature I asked for. Without that, I'd say it's a draw. Being able to mail a record is a big deal in my opinion. Where Splash ID kicks some butt is in the WiFi support. I can sync with the desktop app over wifi. I can also search for records with Splash very easily, and so finding records is simple. But it would be great to be able to send them as an email.

Now on the BlackBerry, the Oxford Dictionary I had took so much space that I had to let it go. It was a trade off. If I used Oxford Dict, then I had little to no room for anything else. I have a very powerful dictionary in the iPhone. And I have all those games and other utils, plus all the functions of the iPod, which are videos, audio books, and superior music management. Audible books are perfect. All of which are difficult on the BB. And all of which are loaded on my iPhone with absolutely zero worry over memory.

Other smart phones really need to take a look at Apple's architecture advantages when it comes to memory. Nothing upset me more on the BB than the limited memory and the way it ruins the experience by forcing you to make choices as to what is most needed in terms of software. On the iPhone, I have ALL that I want. I don't have to worry about what will fit, because all of it fits so easily.

A good while ago, I was on here, and I said I thought RIM stock would drop, and Apple would gain in the Enterprise. RIM stock is down over 30 points from its high now. And with 3G and the speed it offers, I believe we will indeed see Apple grow in the enterprise.

I also said, it's all about the software. And I'll be entirely truthful as I always am. The first round of software on the iPhone could be better. What I predicted originally is that many of the developers for existing mobile devices would show up on the iPhone. And that has indeed taken place. But many of the first apps are little better than on other mobiles because those developers are merely porting rather than re-thinking. Splash Money, and Splash ID are quite nice and take advantage of the iPhone. But the iTrans app really needs to be re-thought. The iPhone will allow that app to truly sing if it were not for the laziness of the developer. In fact I am seriously considering returning to the programming world, just to blow that garbage out of the water and show that a guy that hasn't programmed for 30 years can do a better job.

All things considered, I see the iPhone as an evolutionary product. I think the Google Android devices, the iPhone, and perhaps even Windows Mobile, will start to take a serious toll on RIM. I'm sure few of you will agree, but that's my opinion none the less.

Alex