I enjoyed reading this.

Brad Hirschfield: Fighting Science in the Name of God

Goes with the story above. Pretty scary. At least to me.

Creationists seek to stop the teaching of global warming | MNN - Mother Nature Network

And one more. Sorry for the triple post.

Darwin Foes Add Warming to Targets - NYTimes.com

A snip from the article:

John G. West, a senior fellow with the Discovery Institute in Seattle, a group that advocates intelligent design and has led the campaign for teaching critiques of evolution in the schools, said that the institute was not specifically promoting opposition to accepted science on climate change. Still, Mr. West said, he is sympathetic to that cause.

“There is a lot of similar dogmatism on this issue,” he said, “with scientists being persecuted for findings that are not in keeping with the orthodoxy. We think analyzing and evaluating scientific evidence is a good thing, whether that is about global warming or evolution.”

I would love it if John G. West, senior fellow (whatever that is) would present a prominent scientist or two that is being 'persecuted for findings that are not in keeping with the orthodoxy'.

I really like reading Ed Brayton's stuff. He's calling out Pat Buchanan in this one.

Buchanan Blathers Ignorantly About Evolution : Dispatches from the Culture Wars

I actually believe in the concept of evolution. What I don't believe is that the current form is completely correct. Science teaches us that theories evolve also as more data is availible.

I also believe that most of the "End of Worlders" are nuts. If you want to have some fun with these nut jobs ask them who is the Jesus 2 and Jesus 3 referred to in Revelations. Only logical explaination is that Jesus 1 had kids and Revelation is a history till about 114 AD and not a predication of the future.

I also do not believe in global warming. What I do believe in is the periodic change in climate. It will go warm for a while and cold for a while. In other words if the Gulf of Mexico water touches the Great Salt Lake again are we going to call the new body of water the Delaware Sea or the Colorado Sea? I have asked this of some of the global warming nut jobs and they have no idea of the history of the earth. In my opinion quite a few of them must have "End of Worlder" genes in them.

No particular group has a monopoly on smarts or stupidity. It seems to be spread around fairly evenly.

Well, I will allow mriff to comment for himself, but I will make a prediction that he'll agree with your comment that "all theories evolve..." That is inherently the nature of science.

Curiously within the context of this thread, the theories that stay around are those that are the "fittest" and do the best job of explaining the existing data. And even neater is when there is a true scientific revolution (ala Kuhn), the replacement theory typically explains everything that the original one did, and then more. Consider how Newtonian physics was subsumed by the theory of relativity.

Global warming could be another thread. The only reason I brought it up was that it is now apparently part of the 'wedge' from the good ol' Discovery Institute. But suffice it to say, humans are having an impact on the global climate. To say otherwise is folly, in my humble opinion. (As just one example, look at the loss of rain forests in South America.) I also agree with you T-Bolt, that there are obvious cycles of climate change that also effect climate, regardless of what effects the human population may be causing.

Anyway, back on topic. Sure, of course the Theory of Evolution is 'evolving'. Almost daily. It's the nature of scientific inquiry. There's great debate currently about dinosaur to bird evolution. As far as the Theory of Evolution, there are many thousands of scientists working in the field of evolutionary biology in one form or another. And they are all publishing at a rapid rate, thus continuing to build on body of work. Scientists dispute each other all the time. They even get pissed at each other. This leads to yet more research to prove one hypothesis or another.

So, here's the challenge to anyone willing to take it up. Find any scientific experiment published in peer reviewed journals that brings the Theory of Evolution into dispute. And trust me, as I have said many times in this thread, if it happens, the scientific community will be completely nuts about it and it will be big news. An alternate theory about how life has evolved that can be tested and proven true will be a Nobel winner.

Nice avatar djm2.

One of the more interesting ideas I have read about reguarding evolution is that every once in a while a virus evolves that attacks the DNA structure of eggs and/or sperm. Every once in a while a significantly different child results from the modified DNA that survives and reproduces. This explains the radical step changes along the clads.

I do not disagree that humans can affect the global climate. On the other hand a nice volcano can do far more to change the global weather in short order than we can except for a full scale nuclear exchange. What bothers me is that the normal global cycles seem to be forgotten and humans are given credit for every change in temperature or other change.

Ok, I would sure like to see some references to this research. This does not explain drastic change at all to me. Evolution is based on change in species, not change in individuals. So if you could post some references, I would appreciate it.

As I said, I don't disagree that there are natural events that can cause catastrophic change in climate. But does that mean we just ignore our potential impact on the global climate? That would be like saying that since it's possible that I might get hit by a bus at some point in the future, that I should just give up on maintaining good health. There are things you can do for yourself as well as your planet in the off chance that the bus or meteor doesn't arrive anytime soon.

Next trip to DC, I plan on visiting the new Human Origins hall at the Smithsonian.

Smithsonian Human Origins Program - Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History

That would be interesting to see!

mriff, I have tried to find the article that I read concerning the impact of viruses on evolution and so far I cannot find it. I may have given the article to someone. I am still looking.

Ok, thanks. Sounds like it would be interesting reading.

I did find a reference to the Black Plague and those that survived it. They survived because their DNA had a specific combination. It is interesting that this DNA combination (I think it was called single and double Omega) also allows people to survive AIDS. I remember that a village in England got Plague and was isolated. The outside dumped food off every once in a while so the people would not starve. After about a year they went in and were surprised that some of the people survived. If I remember the single omega (from one parent) got sick but generally survived while the double omega (from both parents) did not get sick. If I remember this was also on either NOVA or Secrets of the Dead. Love my PBS!

if this has been posted already forgive me...

Siberian Fossil Yields Ancient DNA of Long-Lost Human Ancestor - BusinessWeek

An interesting article on tree evolution.

Tree-mendous - Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com

An advanced way to use DNA analysis. Pretty crazy to think about the possibility of several species of hominids living in close proximity to each other and maybe even friendly to each other.

An interesting article.

Evolution defense behind theologian's ouster? - Rod Dreher

He's right. Refusing to deal with evolution, or any branch of science, WILL make Christianity a cult. The deliberate refusal of any group of people to understand and acknowledge the position of the majority (even if they themselves disagree), will marginalize both that group and its own points. And the more Christians feel marginalized by society, the more many of them will argue for "protecting" themselves from it... thereby establishing a cult.

In addition to creating a cult, an inability to intelligently discuss such issues with non-Christians will make any future growth of the church highly unlikely. These are the very sticking points that keep "unchurched" people from believing. They must be discussed, therefore, whether or not people in the church consider them immaterial to Christ's message. (I fall in that camp.)

Interesting, but sadly misguided. IMHO.

Ervin Laszlo: Evolution Presupposes Design, So Why the Controversy?

I like this.

Theory of Evolution isnxxx039;t a religion- itxxx039;s science | Chthonic Wildlife Ramblings

Really cool!

Evolution Timeline

Steven Newton: Evolution, Creationism, and the Workplace

Money quote: In each case, there is one clear loser: science.

I think I'll have to try this.....

30 Second Wine Advisor: Pinot Theory of Evolution - wineloverspage.com

Hey baby!

Study: Neanderthal DNA Lives On in Modern Humans - TIME

Good grief!

The Washington Monthly

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...40-503544.html

Yay! Cheers to the "New & Modern" South. Love to see the tolerance.

A race to repudiate science. The winner looses.

(y)

Absolutely amazing.

Not exactly on topic, but somewhat related.

News Alert
from The Wall Street Journal


Scientists for the first time have created a synthetic cell, completely controlled by man-made genetic instructions, which can survive and reproduce itself, researchers at the private J. Craig Venter Institute announced Thursday. Created at a cost of $30 million, the experimental one-cell organism opens the way to the manipulation of life on a previously unattainable scale.

Synthetic Genomics, a company founded by Dr. Venter, funded the experiments and owns the intellectual property rights to the cell-creation techniques.

Scientists Create First Synthetic Cell - WSJ.com

Eh, did Dr. Venter use Intelligent Design?

Is anyone else deeply disturbed by this sentence? On many levels?

If you want to have a concern think about the research that is not reported either due to patent issues, security concerns or someone is inventing a more interesting weapon.

This is a huge scientific advancement. Applications seem endless. Such as mass production of certain molecules like drugs or petrochemicals. This hit the mainstream press pretty hard last week. Wow. Thanks for posting.

Holy crap! I guess this pretty much sums it up. I guess all those scientists are wrong.

Peanut Butter: Proof Evolution Doesnxxx8217;t Exist | Disinformation

<facepalm>

You've GOT to be kidding....

And the universe is only a few thousands year old. I am coming to the conclusion that the truly insane are those who try and force others to their demented views.

I can't believe that anybody would buy this argument. Of course, the fact that some do buy it is one of the better arguments against evolution that I've heard of late. :razz:

Irrationality is a conserved trait... :-(

One need only drive during rush hour in any major city to prove that. ;-)

Here you go, mriff:

Scientists find oldest record of animal life on Earth xxx8211; This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Saw that! Thought it was pretty cool the way they made the 3D images.

a Pennsylvania State Senator's take on evolution:

Senator Daylin Leach's Blog: Christine O'Donnell's Evolution

He is very liberal, but you gotta love his humor!

Really good. O'Donnell is a nutjob.

Christine O'Donnell Opposes Masturbation, Evolution and Socialism

Was she the one accused of witchcraft? Makes sense to me.

That's her. She claims to have 'dabbled' in witchcraft..

Is that like being kind of pregnant?

No, not for her. Unless you are married. And don't masterbate either. Also taboo.

Eh, can one slaverbate?

Its all about power and money.

Article that talks a little about how viruses may have help start "life."

Giant virus found in tiny predator

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

They're back. And I fear that this is just the start given the recent elections.

Louisiana Citizens Horrified that there’s Evolution in Science Books | Religion Dispatches

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Good riddance...

SBOE Meeting Is Controversial Memberxxx39;s Last Stand &mdash; State Board of Education | The Texas Tribune

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Thanks for the heads up. I find it astounding that these beliefs are taken seriously in a supposedly advanced society. It is also, on a whole different level, absolutely fascinating in the same way that a train derailment is compelling.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Back??? They never left. :-)

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Good point! (y)

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Mriff, I was wondering about your take on this.

NASA announcement: Arsenic-based life form discovered on Earth

I thought it was potentially a huge scientific finding.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

So much for the basic building blocks eh? Yeah this hit the mainstream press pretty hard yesterday. It is a startling finding. Some are rushing to judgment, in my opinion, on its potential ramifications in suggesting alien life forms. But I guess its not that big of a stretch to say that some life forms could be alien. Richard Dawkins has suggested this in the past only to be ridiculed. Maybe he's on to something. What did you think about it?

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Comments?

Ark Encounter theme park plans unveiled | Gadling.com

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

The discovery I thought was potentially huge regarding life here on earth. As for alien life, with a universe that is approaching infinity I have always believed that somewhere there must be alien life forms -- the cumulative effects of nearly infinite small probabilities simply demands it -- we're just too primitive to have unearthed (pun intended) them.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I wonder what the religious types would do if an alien spaceship did land and the occupants declared that we ain't special.

I have pondered the possible implications on more than one occasion.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

It's back....

Florida Citizens for Science » Blog Archive » The return of the Florida antievolution bill

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I think I figured out what the conservative types are attacking education. They don't want anyone smarter than them.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

This is so sad. What is the forecast for the odds of that bill's success in the FL legislature?

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I could say something mean here, but I'll hold back. :smile:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

He submitted the same bill last year, and it failed. The difference this year is that he has buried this attempt in another larger bill. And softened the language so as to make it almost benign. But it's still a threat and an opening for mischief if it were to pass. Which is entirely his intention.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Was there a dramatic shift in the FL legislature from the elections, and if so does this increase the probability?

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

There was a shift, not so dramatic. It was already very conservative. Now more so. Republican Governor. So yes, it is worrisome.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

The bill failed. Again. Cooler heads prevailed.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Having said that, religion and politics in the same thread, this could get ugly.[/QUOTE]

you got a deep understanding of this

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Interesting thread huh? Rather passionate in places. Funny in others. We even threw in college football at one point.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

A very common argument from ID'ers.

Bachmann: Schools should teach intelligent design – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

"I support intelligent design," Bachmann told reporters in New Orleans following her speech to the Republican Leadership Conference. "What I support is putting all science on the table and then letting students decide. I don't think it's a good idea for government to come down on one side of scientific issue or another, when there is reasonable doubt on both sides."

I support putting all science on the table as well. And if you do actually put all ideas supported by sound science on the table then what you get is the Theory of Evolution. Nothing else makes the cut. She managed to get all common misconceptions about evolution in three sentences. :?

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Mriff, I'm sure you'd agree that ID wouldn't even get on the table simply because it does not cut it as a scientific explanation.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Yep. It can't be tested. If it could, and the science behind gained status as a theory, then the discovering scientists would be famous. The Discovery Institute can't come up with any peer reviewed science, which is their oft stated goal. So we're still waiting.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Interesting!

Darryl Cunningham Investigates: Evolution

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Thanks for posting that link. It was a fascinating presentation.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Got it from Roger Eberts facebook page. He got into the whole debate while critiquing 'Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed'.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Isaac Asimov was a pretty smart guy. He wrote this back in 1984. Things haven't changed much.

Isaac Asimov "The 'Threat' of Creationism," 1984

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Good humor and appropriate for this discussion:

Georgia School Board Bans 'Theory Of Math' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

:razz:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Too funny. And now this important announcement from Earth: Planet Earth Doesn't Know How To Make It Any Clearer It Wants Everyone To Leave | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I finally figured it out. Politicians de-evolve. This answers a lot of questions. Given enough time they will turn into "missing" links.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

If there were such things as 'missing links', maybe. :razz:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I was reading around on some science blogs (PZ Myers: Pharyngula) and saw an old listing of Kent Hovind's (I refuse to call him Doctor) list of reasons why the earth is 6,000 years old. Here they are.

Evolution is Religion, not Science says Dr. Hovind

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Eh, if Kent Hovind's gene pool has only been around for 6000 years maybe he is a true missing link. Think about it.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Things are heating up over in TX again. Pretty shocking what the board of education is putting forth. What a mess. And Governor Perry is the man behind the nominations.

Education Board war escalates

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Perry is an idiot. He thinks that prostituting himself to the wing nuts will get him elected president. I think that is a proper use of the verb prostitute.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Would you consider this guy one of his wing nuts?

Rick Perry Partner John Benefiel Claims Homosexuality Is An Illuminati Conspiracy | Right Wing Watch

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Yes, I'd consider him a Grade-A wing nut.

Did anybody else pick up on the innuendo of referring to Benefiel as Perry's "parrtner." ROTFLMAO

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I had not considered the possibility of Perry being a Log Cabin Republican. On the other hand do you think he might come out if he thought it would get him elected? LOL

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

TBOLT -- A politician would do ANYTHING if he/she thought it would get them elected. Dress in drag, pretend to be in the closet so they could come out, play the main actor in the donkey show -- heck donkey in the donkey show -- nothing is too base for a politician hungry for their currency -- power. Even a common streetwalker has a higher moral code than those scum-sucking parasites.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

:razz:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Saner heads prevailed in Texas at the SBOE meeting.

Anti-Science Forces Try to Spin Loss « Texas Freedom Network

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

From the Dallas Morning News:

New science e-books approved by state education board | Dallas-Fort Worth Education News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News

And in the comments, this gem from barnyfife! :razz:

Any one with thinking brain knows that evolution is a farce foisted upon gullible minds, thus rendering the deceived recipients quite stupid at best. God created all things seen and unseen. He created all creatures after their own kind. The so-called "science' of evolution is a satanic lie to deceive the wicked. Grow up people and reject the fairy tale of evolution.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Well, it sounds like he selected a very appropriate user name! :razz:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Sounds to me that barnyfife is a troll. I might be wrong, I might be totally stupid, I might qualify to run for pubic office but I don't think so.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Go to this page [HTML] Copy-pastable HTML text showing how micro-evolution leads to macro-evolution - Pastebin.com, and cut and paste the text into a Word document. Pretty interesting.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Got this for the word of the day last month from dictionary.com. Seemed relevant to this thread...

Word of the Day for Friday, July 15, 2011

apodictic \ap-uh-DIK-tik\, adjective:

1. Necessarily true or logically certain.
2. Incontestable because of having been demonstrated or proved to be demonstrable.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

I'm not bright enough to figure out how to get this to show correctly in this forum. I just tried to cut and paste into a word document and that doesn't work either. :oops:

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

Oh boy, here we go.

Gov. Perry: We Teach Creationism in Texas « Texas Freedom Network

How old do I think the earth is? You know what? I don’t have any idea. I know it’s pretty old. So it goes back a long, long way. I’m not sure anybody actually knows completely and absolutely how old the earth is.

I hear your mom was asking about evolution and, you know, it’s a theory that’s out there. It’s got some gaps in it, but in Texas we teach both creationism and evolution in our public schools. Because I figure you’re smart enough to figure out which one is right.

It's a theory that's 'out there'? Wow.

Re: President Obama and Evolution
 

And now for the 1,000th post in the Obama Evolution thread, a post about one of the front runners in the race for the Republican nomination.

Rick Perry's Problem with Science Education « Texas Freedom Network

We have this:

Recognizing that evolution is a theory, and not claimed by anyone to be more than that, the governor believes it would be a disservice to our children to teach them only one theory on the origin of our existence without recognizing other scientific theories worth consideration. Intelligent design is a concept that is gaining greater traction because it points to a notion that most people believe to be true: that we were created by an intelligent being who designed the human race with great detail and complexity

And this:

I am a firm believer in intelligent design as a matter of faith and intellect, and I believe it should be presented in schools alongside the theories of evolution.

I can't even begin to break down the mistakes and complete lack of science knowledge.