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jsconyers 03-23-2010 09:32 AM

Supporting Religion - Moral Question
 
I will try to explain this as best as I can. I am looking for some feedback.

I have been seeing someone for about 8 months now. Things have been going really well. She's been going through a LOT of life changes and personal changes and I have been there supporting her through all of this. We are well aware of each other's religious standpoints. She is Catholic, and well, I am not really religious at all.

For the most part, we kind of avoid getting into religion debates (for obvious reasons). However, lately, I've been thinking of trying to be more supportive of her beliefs (even though they're not mine). I went to a Sunday morning Mass with her one time. It was the first time either of us attended this particular church. This church was massive. I definitely felt out of place. I think it may have been a little over the top for me, if you will. I just couldn't get into it.

I told her that, and she felt pretty similar. She is used to smaller churches and prefers that. I almost think I could adjust better in that atmosphere as well.

After thinking a little more about this... should I attend church with her? Is it wrong attending because it's something that I don't fully believe in?

Any and all feedback (positive or negative) is welcome. I just want to get an idea of what you guys and gals think. What would you do in a similar situation?

the-economist 03-23-2010 09:42 AM

Wirelessly posted

It's rather about time you sit down with her and explain in a calm and polite manner that god,santa, the tooth fairy and Frodo don't exist and all belong to kids stories. Then you can go on with your life live long and prosper.

Of course given the years of psychological manipulation and brainwashing religious families put their ofspings through it might take a tad longer than this. But if you care about her you HAVE to try.
Good luck.

Noodle22 03-23-2010 12:05 PM

I've been in a similar situation, I've wanted to sit in on services to see how I felt, but have never had the courage to go. A friend has offered to take me to her church, but I won't go to hers as the women are not allowed to speak and cannot show their hair, and that's not something I believe in.

Try it with the smaller church, see how you feel, if you still don't like it, let her know.

Honesty is the best policy. If your both good people, you can both learn to accept each other for how you are and let each other be. She can still go without you.

TBOLTRAM 03-23-2010 03:22 PM

Sounds like your friends church is run by the word of man and not the word of God. If you go to a church where "they" know what is best for you then that is a sign to depart as quickly as possible.

Dubdub 03-23-2010 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1583740)
Wirelessly posted

It's rather about time you sit down with her and explain in a calm and polite manner that god,santa, the tooth fairy and Frodo don't exist and all belong to kids stories. Then you can go on with your life live long and prosper.

Of course given the years of psychological manipulation and brainwashing religious families put their ofspings through it might take a tad longer than this. But if you care about her you HAVE to try.
Good luck.

I cannot agree with your statement of "psychological manipulation and brainwashing" and find it very offensive. I happen to believe and it is not a result of brainwashing or whatever you call it.

I do however believe that everyone makes their own choice and will stay with that choice throughout eternity.

jsconyers 03-23-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1583740)
Wirelessly posted

It's rather about time you sit down with her and explain in a calm and polite manner that god,santa, the tooth fairy and Frodo don't exist and all belong to kids stories. Then you can go on with your life live long and prosper.

Of course given the years of psychological manipulation and brainwashing religious families put their ofspings through it might take a tad longer than this. But if you care about her you HAVE to try.
Good luck.

I thought I would get an answer like this. I don't see how this would be supportive of her beliefs. It would be more of me pushing other beliefs onto her.

My question to you is, just because you don't believe in God and someone else does, what makes your belief right and theirs make-believe?

By telling someone that God isn't real, doesn't exist, and belongs in a children's book, how is that any different than "brainwashing" as a church allegedly does?

I am trying to go into this with an open mind. While I appreciate your feedback and views, I think it's a little one-sided.

I am not saying that your belief is right, or hers is right, because in the end, no one knows.

jsconyers 03-23-2010 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle22 (Post 1583888)
I've been in a similar situation, I've wanted to sit in on services to see how I felt, but have never had the courage to go. A friend has offered to take me to her church, but I won't go to hers as the women are not allowed to speak and cannot show their hair, and that's not something I believe in.

Try it with the smaller church, see how you feel, if you still don't like it, let her know.

Honesty is the best policy. If your both good people, you can both learn to accept each other for how you are and let each other be. She can still go without you.

That's another thing, I don't know too much about the religion, their policies, etc. So that doesn't help with the feeling out of place. They have a lot of prayers that she and the other members have memorized and I had no idea what they were. I would like to try going to a smaller church to see if that would be an easier pill to swallow, so to speak.

She definitely knows how I feel about it, and she continues to go alone. I would just like to show her that I can be supportive of her in other areas of her life, even if it's something that I don't fully understand.

JSanders 03-23-2010 03:44 PM

jsconyers, my opinion on couple of your questions:

Yes,you might end up "attending" services, for her. But in the long-run, I hope you will find a church and a congregation in which you feel comfortable to worship as you desire. You might start out doing it for her, but I think you will be unfulfilled and seeking more.

You're seeing a denomination steeped in tradition and rules and written prayers, and only certain people can have access to God. I threw all that off a few years ago upon understanding that God loves us all equally, and really all He wants is a relationship with us. So, in my opinion, what you are "seeing" is simple "religion" the mechanics and what man has made religion, and you're getting very little answer the questions you obviously have.

I think you're still seeking. Keep at it.

But I have to say as opposed to one not knowing in the end, rather -- in the end, we will ALL know.

For your relationship? I'll tell you this: One day she is going to look to you for leadership on the matter. It is your place, when you get married, to provide that, and I'm guessing if it is important to her now, it will be then.

the-economist 03-23-2010 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsconyers (Post 1584032)
I thought I would get an answer like this. I don't see how this would be supportive of her beliefs. It would be more of me pushing other beliefs onto her.

You don't need to be supportive, you need to be rational.
Quote:

My question to you is, just because you don't believe in God and someone else does, what makes your belief right and theirs make-believe?
Probably the fact that i don't talk to non existent entities and i don't have imaginary friends. And my point only becomes stronger when i lookup psychosis under the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV)
Quote:

By telling someone that God isn't real, doesn't exist, and belongs in a children's book, how is that any different than "brainwashing" as a church allegedly does?
It really isn't. The only difference being you're basing it on science and not dogma. Any form of religion would eventually die out. At least in the educated nations.

February 16, 1600. The Roman Catholic Church that your partner participates in orders the execution of Giordano Bruno. An italian scientist. He is burnt alive for the crime of heresy. Do you know what constituted heresy in the 1600s for the Catholic Church? Defending the Copernican system of astronomy. He lost his life set to fire alive with his tongue tight in a knot so he couldn't address the public. He died defending the same principles with Galileo. Do you know WHEN the Chrurch released a statement accepting Galileo's teachings about stelar objects? In 1993! People born in 1993 are still in the education system today. So when they were born, those scientists of today, the church wanted to burn them alive.

In the middle ages they used to burn alive people with blue eyes because they supposedly were witches and wizards. And although if i tell you today that someone is a witch because of blue eyes you gonna ROTFL, how many people even today believe in superstition, not crossing the path of cats, not walking under stairs, pulling their eyebrows and making wishes. Where do you think all this crap comes from? Middle ages, some 350 years ago.

Christmas eve of 1968 the Apollo 8 mission took a pic of the planet now known as Earthrise. Do you know what happened next? People started posting in papers disputing NOT the mission, but the SHAPE of the earth. It was 1968, some aeons after the Greeks,after Galileo, some centuries after Newton, and people posted whole articles claiming the picture was fake because the earth is really FLAT! 1968! 40 years ago.

So if your partner shared ANY of the above "truths of the era" would you feel the need to be supportive or rational? If she was afraid to go out at night with you because she was brainwashed to believe in Bigfoot, the Yeti, or the Chupacambra what would you do? Be supportive and acceptive of the Yeti's existance, or be rational and disproof all stupidity to kingdom come (sic).

Just hold her tight, tell her that they've been messing with her brains, and you both don't give a flying toss if god exists or not. You got each other. Make sure to extend the message to your children when the time comes.

JSanders 03-23-2010 05:49 PM

And, with such as he stated, the-economist is espousing his form of beliefs.

But I don't think this thread was intended as a debate over whether or not God exists or the horrible circumstances surrounding (any and all) religions over the years, was it?

the-economist 03-23-2010 06:04 PM

Yeah, pretty much i did. And that's because i got the feeling from his post that he actually CARES about that woman.

If he was just trying to sleep with her my advice would probably be to tell her that Santa Maria dia St Agapius of Citra revealed Themselves to him in his sleep in ALL Their Glory and instructed him to procreate asap so to prepare The Army of Jesus for His Second Coming. The church has been exploiting fear of god for millennia. I see nothing wrong scoring a bit of strange out of it.

But i don't believe that to be the case herein.

the-economist 03-23-2010 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubdub (Post 1584026)
I cannot agree with your statement of "psychological manipulation and brainwashing" and find it very offensive. I happen to believe and it is not a result of brainwashing or whatever you call it.

I do however believe that everyone makes their own choice and will stay with that choice throughout eternity.

Taking offence is expected. It just proves my point.

By the way "throughout eternity" exists as a phrase ONLY in kid's stories, in cheap romance novels and religious doctrines. Nowhere else.

Noodle22 03-23-2010 06:33 PM

Gosh, it looks like someone found out about Santa not being real the wrong way. I don't believe I've ever seen someone so seemingly bitter and angry towards something that others believe in. Do we really need this debated?

I am NOT religious, but I do believe in keeping an open mind about what could be. And yes, that does mean I think it is possible there are Yeti's that exist. There's so much for us to learn, so much left unexplored in the world, almost nothing is conclusive.

Call me crazy, but I'm not about to doubt something that could be. We could easily say, "Where's the proof there is a God?" and "Where is the proof there is no God?"

That being said, I think we should stay on topic, this is about jsconyers specific issue.

the-economist 03-23-2010 06:54 PM

We are 100% on topic. jsconyers feels out of place in church but he can't quite yet put his finger on WHY.

When he's able to smell the BS, he'll know how to approach his partner and explain the "all eternity truths" about yetis and chupacambras and gods and daemons and tooth fairies and santa and the big bad woolf.

ezrunner 03-23-2010 07:20 PM

Wirelessly posted (well lookie here!)

jsconyers I commend for having an open enough mind to go and see what it is she is into!
I have been in a similar circumstance where I practiced religion in my own way!
I met someone who believed the guidance of her church while practicing her beliefs! She asked me to attend with her so that I could see what it was to her. I in turn asked her to go about it once my way!
I say go experience it with her. I'd suggest a smaller church! Go to different churches until you find one you are comfortable! Give it an honest effort you may continue to go or you may decide it isn't for you! If you both care for one another you should be able to respect one anothers differences and still carry on your relationship

TBOLTRAM 03-23-2010 09:25 PM

I do not remember who said this but the guy was a genius:

Religion is good, Religions are bad, very bad.

I have gone through various feelings about churches over my life. I married, had kids and then had them go through confirmation and such. We had rather lengthy conversations about faith, belief and finally what the bible actually was saying. I have done a lot of study and come to the conclusion that there is a big difference between what was written and how it is interpeted. In general, the magical is presented and the political downplayed or ignored.

How many of you are aware of the 6 AD rebellion and the term thieves? How many of you have read the Dead Sea Scrolls? This completely changes how you view the story of Jesus feeding the multitude. Do you understand the term "Babes in Christ"? Hopefully some of you have ears that hear.

Back to js and his question. If your girlfriend views are set in stone then you will have problems at some point. If she is truly searching for answers then it can be a journey that is worthwhile. You are aware that the Roman Catholic church has classes for those who marry. I suggest you investigate that first.

For those who wonder I am a member of a conservative church in the United Church of Christ which is rather liberal.

daphne 03-23-2010 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584096)
Taking offence is expected. It just proves my point.

By the way "throughout eternity" exists as a phrase ONLY in kid's stories, in cheap romance novels and religious doctrines. Nowhere else.

I respect your right to have your own beliefs about religion or lack thereof, but it appears to me you don't give others that respect if they disagree with you.

Furthermore, you are hijacking this thread, and not in a nice way.

daphne 03-23-2010 10:03 PM

js, I think you are to be commended for being willing to experience church with your girlfriend even though you don't share her beliefs. I agree with others that the experience would very likely be a lot different and less intimidating in a smaller church. I am not Catholic, but I've had Catholic friends and been to church with some of them. There's a wide variety of styles of services, from very formal services where Mass is said in Latin, to comtemporary services where people go in shorts or jeans, and they have pop to rock type music by a live band. If you find a style of service that is comfortable to you, then you can focus more on what is actually happening. You may find that you like or, or not, but at least you've taken the time to explore and that in itself is supportive to her.

the-economist 03-24-2010 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daphne (Post 1584159)
I respect your right to have your own beliefs about religion or lack thereof, but it appears to me you don't give others that respect if they disagree with you.

Has nothing to do with respect. If you walk into a medical practice with a gangrene infected arm and claim that god has given you the "stigmata" to suffer for all humanity the medical professional would have to ignore your "beliefs" and try to save your delusional ass. You may of course find that highly disrespectful that he doesn't recognise your one god and saviour and doesn't participate with you celebrating the revelation of the uber being, but although he's in full knowledge that the gene pool is going to suffer your future contributions, he still has to keep you alive. You know why? Because he's a scientist and can exercise rational thinking.

If you walk into a church and present the same arm and claim again suspected theistic interaction they would start singing "praise the lord".

I hope with all my heart that if someone you care about comes to you with a "divine revelation" you take them through a hospital door and not a congregation.

jsconyers 03-24-2010 08:54 AM

@ez & Daphne, Thanks for your advice. I agree with what you said about the small church. I shad a conversation with her about this last night, telling her that I would like to regularly start attending church with her. I mentioned that I think we need to find another (smaller) church as I didn't feel comfortable at the one we went to originally. She agreed, and we will see how things go.

@the-economist, I see your points, and I can't say that I fully agree or disagree with you. When it comes to religion, I try to keep an open mind. There are a lot of religions and a lot of beliefs out there. My issue is when people try to force their religion or beliefs onto others. For me, it pushes me away from that or belief. That and when people put other religions and beliefs down because they differ from theirs. That theirs is superior.

The great thing about America (I know you're not in America) is that we have the freedom of religion. We are free to believe or not believe in any religion of our choice. I agree with what Daphne stated, you don't seem open to accepting other's beliefs. It's fine if you don't believe, or you think it is a fairy tale, that's your belief. But it's not fine to tell someone else their belief is incorrect just because your opinion differs.

dmead 03-24-2010 10:49 AM

the-economist reminds me of Tom Leykis.

daphne 03-24-2010 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584227)
Has nothing to do with respect...

You are wrong here... you are assuming that your belief, and only yours, is the correct belief. And you are pushing your beliefs on everyone in this thread by declaring eveyone else is wrong and you are right. That is lack of respect. Personally I don't care what you believe or don't believe, but you are being rude and disrespectful to others, and hijacking the thead.

How would you like it if someone came back at you and insisted, repeatedly, that you are wrong and are going to hell because you don't believe what they believe? I expect you you would not like it. But that is what you are doing to others by implying that yours is the only correct belief.

the-economist 03-24-2010 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsconyers (Post 1584296)
@the-economist, I see your points, and I can't say that I fully agree or disagree with you.

Seriously? You can't? You're not sure at this point in your life if you gonna go for the gardens of eden and the talking snakes, and the people made out of clay, and the dead rising, and the 7 gates of hell or evolutionary biology?

hope this can help you

daphne 03-24-2010 11:19 AM

There you go again, acting as if you are superior and being demeaning to the OP. :?

the-economist 03-24-2010 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daphne (Post 1584383)
How would you like it if someone came back at you and insisted, repeatedly, that you are wrong and are going to hell

Sorry darling, that only works on delusional people with imaginary friends. All my friends have flesh and bones.

the-economist 03-24-2010 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsconyers (Post 1584296)
I had a conversation with her about this last night, telling her that I would like to regularly start attending church with her.

I see you already made up your mind so there is really no point taking the thread further. Good luck.

the-economist 03-24-2010 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmead (Post 1584377)
the-economist reminds me of Tom Leykis.

He had a radio show, right? Was he any good?

dmead 03-24-2010 11:31 AM

yes he had a radio show. It was amusing. amusing enough to keep me tuned in every day for 8 years. anyway your shtick reminds me of him. occasionaly he would have an hour or two of his sho called "Ask the Atheist' callers would ask him various questions about atheism or his beliefs in specific. good listening.

anywho back on topic

the-economist 03-24-2010 12:01 PM

Thanks, i found the rss feed on westwoodone and Podtrapper is hard at work pulling the episodes. ;-)

jsconyers 03-24-2010 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584409)
I see you already made up your mind so there is really no point taking the thread further. Good luck.

No, my mind isn't made up. It is open to experiencing new things, unlike yours. I think you have misinterpreted this thread. I didn't ask if God existed, but that is where you seem to be taking it.

the-economist 03-24-2010 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsconyers (Post 1584450)
No, my mind isn't made up. It is open to experiencing new things, unlike yours. I think you have misinterpreted this thread. I didn't ask if God existed, but that is where you seem to be taking it.

I'm aware your question wasn't about the existence or not of a deity. Your question was if you should support her belief in a postulated supernatural immortal being although by your own statement in your first post you don't really believe.

I never tried to convince you of anything. You declared yourself a non-believer in your very first post.

I just gave you ideas how to better present the scientific method to your partner. You said you 're not religious and she is. I told you cool, there is no point in pretending or suffering mass in silence, just TALK to her.

A couple of posts down and suddenly you're not sure. What exactly you're not sure of? If you should still support her belief to the deity, or of your own belief?

jsconyers 03-24-2010 12:56 PM

No, I am sure I want to be supportive of her an her beliefs. I am not sure about religion in general. That hasn't changed. Will it? I don't know.

Just because you don't believe, doesn't mean I should tell her what she believes is false. You came to that conclusion on your own and she came to hers on her own.

JSanders 03-24-2010 02:02 PM

Seems the-economist has nicely managed to make this thread about himself and his beliefs, even to tell the OP that he is wrong about he was asking.

JS, sounds to me like the-economist is as rabid an evangelist for his "nothing" belief, as any I've seen strongholded in Waco, TX, or shrilling around the Ayatolla Khomeini thirty years ago. The only difference is the chosen dogma.

the-economist 03-24-2010 02:31 PM

JSanders i'm really sorry but i can't really take you seriously anymore. Not after that "a few years ago upon understanding that God loves us all equally, and really all He wants is a relationship with us".

You maintain communication links of mutual understanding of wishes and desires with entities that don't register as organic matter. I could not possibly discuss anything with you, i'm not state licensed. You need a professional.

I would appreciate though if you so wish to comment on my postings to do it directly to me rather through a proxy.

kindly,

daphne 03-24-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584608)
JSanders i'm really sorry but i can't really take you seriously anymore. Not after that "a few years ago upon understanding that God loves us all equally, and really all He wants is a relationship with us".

You maintain communication links of mutual understanding of wishes and desires with entities that don't register as organic matter. I could not possibly discuss anything with you, i'm not state licensed. You need a professional.

I would appreciate though if you so wish to comment on my postings to do it directly to me rather through a proxy.

kindly,

the-economist,

If you don't want your postings commented on in a public forum, then you should not post them in a public forum.

JSanders 03-24-2010 02:58 PM

@the-economist, this isn't about you, and what you can take seriously. It appears you can't get a grip on the fact that everything around here is NOT about you.

the-economist 03-24-2010 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daphne (Post 1584632)
the-economist,

If you don't want your postings commented on in a public forum, then you should not post them in a public forum.

Where exactly did i say i don't want my postings commented upon? :?

the-economist 03-24-2010 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSanders (Post 1584634)
@the-economist, this isn't about you, and what you can take seriously. It appears you can't get a grip on the fact that everything around here is NOT about you.

I never claimed otherwise.

JSanders 03-24-2010 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584608)

I would appreciate though if you so wish to comment on my postings to do it directly to me rather through a proxy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1584638)
Where exactly did i say i don't want my postings commented upon? :?

Enough.

juwaack68 03-24-2010 07:06 PM

I miss all the fun lately. That's what I get for getting an iPhone and not booting up my laptop in the evenings.....

jsconyers, I'll echo what others (not all others, mind you) have offered. If you like her, really, really like her, give it a chance. Large churches can certainly be overwhelming, and smaller doesn't always mean better, sometimes it just means...smaller. You may like it, or you may tolerate it, or you may sigh when you think about it, or you may wind up stopping. You won't be 'out' anything if you go, and you might even find you like it, if you find the right place to go.

djm2 03-24-2010 07:53 PM

I missed a train wreck. EZ and Tbolt must be playing in their switching stations!

@jsconyers: All I will say is that every relationship will require some give and take for it to be healthy and sustaining. Regardless of what you ultimately come to believe regarding the value of organized religion or belief for you -- and note that I differentiate these into separate issues -- that give and take is a necessary but not sufficient part of making a successful long-term relationship.

@the-economist: When all is said and done, you and I are probably pretty close in terms of beliefs about world view and the like. There is, however, one fundamental area where we differ.

Long ago I had the great pleasure of being allowed to teach Philosophy of Science courses to our graduate students who were gearing up to begin their dissertations. It was probably my favorite course; I got to teach it every two years for a stretch of time. One of the fundamental issues that comes into play in this context is the role of the different levels of knowledge and certainty that exist within theories. And fundamentally, when you decompose and analyze any theory, you ultimately get to two (among others) different levels of knowledge: (a) axiomatic principles which are comprehensive laws supported by a broad selection of data, and (b) assumptions, which are considered to be basic truths that are used to derive other more specific hypotheses but which are usually not directly testable.

Consider, for example, the origins of the universe. Most contemporary science would focus on the Big-Bang Theory -- and the derivations from the assumption of the Big Bang are largely consistent with the physical evidence that we see. But ask the question: What caused the big bang? The answers that you will get will largely consist of circular reasoning designed to befuddle the questioner and duck the issue. Typically, what this reflects is a matter of faith. The answerer "believes" that his/her assumption(s) is/are valid and is not prepared to take the argument any further. And how different is that from believing that "time traveling bunnies" or a god is ultimately the driving source of causality in the model.

For someone who is presumably a proponent of the science of economics, I am compelled to point out to you that economics is more replete with assumptions than most of the hard sciences (physics, chemistry) and only slightly better than psychology and sociology -- usually derided as "soft" sciences. And failing to address those assumptions has in large part contributed to the meltdown of the financial markets that we saw in the past couple of years.

I suspect that you are a first year graduate student in economics who has not yet come to grips with the breadth of ignorance that confronts any true scientist, and thus is suffering from a massive case of over-blown ego and excessive hubris. Get a bit of humility, dude. It will help you understand the world.

kathrynhr 03-26-2010 09:06 AM

I missed this thread also.

JS, I think you're on the right track with your decisions and remarks so far. People in churches are there because they're looking for something. Some are looking for God, some for companionship, some for a sense of meaning about something that has happened to them in the past, some because they were dragged or guilted there by someone else... the list goes on and on. Very few people attend church for reasons that are strictly pious.

If you're attending to grow a relationship with someone you care about, so be it. You have good intentions, and that's a good thing in and of itself. I don't think it's necessary to believe in order to attend church; Christ would not turn someone away because they had doubts - he would sit down and speak with them. I also don't think you need feel like a pretender if you attend church services and events without faith. Someone once told me that attending church is admitting that you don't have all the answers. I'd definitely say that applies here.

JSanders 03-26-2010 10:05 AM

Kathryn, perfect point.

Churches should be specifically for non-believers. The one I attend is. Ours is a large congregation and any one service might have 2,000-2,400 in attendance. Our pastor has specifically said to us regular attenders, "Hey, this service really isn't meant for you, but instead for the people who aren't here."

It's congregations that don't make visitors and seekers feel comfortable which are dying in the US. Questions like jsconyers' make it easy to understand why.

the-economist 03-27-2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm2 (Post 1584758)
@the-economist: When all is said and done, you and I are probably pretty close in terms of beliefs about world view and the like.

Happy to hear that (y)

Quote:

For someone who is presumably a proponent of the science of economics, I am compelled to point out to you that economics is more replete with assumptions than most of the hard sciences (physics, chemistry)
The methodologies and models used by social sciences are extremely different to physics or chem or any of the natural sciences. We don't call economics the dismal science for nothing.

Quote:

I suspect that you are a first year graduate student in economics who has not yet come to grips with the breadth of ignorance that confronts any true scientist, and thus is suffering from a massive case of over-blown ego and excessive hubris. Get a bit of humility, dude. It will help you understand the world.
Close enough. I was a phd student. Almost 20 years ago. I appreciate the advice though.

I'd rather not comment further on the main issue of the thread or your post. Some moderator got offended and booted me out once already. And to tell you the truth i believe they were right. The argument was getting heated for no good reason. Religion should really be a personal thing. No need for grand parades, either for it, or against it.

Enjoy your weekend :smile:

mriff 03-28-2010 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-economist (Post 1586021)
I'd rather not comment further on the main issue of the thread or your post. Some moderator got offended and booted me out once already.

I didn't know one could be banned by what they post in the Sensitive Discussions forum. I thought that was the point of establishing this forum area. Compare this to the evolution thread. Seems pretty tame.

angelbear1973 03-29-2010 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1586268)
I didn't know one could be banned by what they post in the Sensitive Discussions forum. I thought that was the point of establishing this forum area. Compare this to the evolution thread. Seems pretty tame.

Actually your wrong Dawg was banned for comments made in this section of the forum. So nthe ban stick can come from anywhere

Noodle22 03-29-2010 09:30 AM

One of the rules here is no personal attacks, so there are ways you can get banned.

angelbear1973 03-29-2010 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle22 (Post 1586714)
One of the rules here is no personal attacks, so there are ways you can get banned.

or a mod just doesnt like whats said you can always get banned. They have a lot of freedoms

Noodle22 03-29-2010 12:46 PM

I wasn't there, so I can't say. I don't have a personal opinion on this, just pointing out this forum does have rules.

mriff 03-29-2010 07:19 PM

Ok. Well as I said, one could peruse the evolution thread. There are probably some 'banable' offenses in that thread and no one got kicked out after some rather heated rhetoric. Including me. I think the sensitive area should have some much broader latitude as far as getting kicked off BBF.

TBOLTRAM 03-29-2010 07:41 PM

Maybe the secret is not to take things too seriously. Having said that I remember what I was told one time when I was in high school.

"Everything in moderation, anything in excess is a sin including religion."

Noodle22 03-29-2010 09:26 PM

Now, how do you define moderation?

TBOLTRAM 03-29-2010 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noodle22 (Post 1587011)
Now, how do you define moderation?

That is the question that seperates the men from the boys or the women from the girls.

angelbear1973 04-03-2010 04:42 PM

It really doesnt matter noodle, Dawg wont ever be allowed back. So he will just always be a great character from the past

mriff 04-04-2010 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelbear1973 (Post 1589440)
It really doesnt matter noodle, Dawg wont ever be allowed back. So he will just always be a great character from the past

Well that's just too bad. He added a certain flair to the boards. A character as you say. He was maddening at times and funny at times. I think he should be allowed to rejoin.

test54 04-04-2010 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1589633)
Well that's just too bad. He added a certain flair to the boards. A character as you say. He was maddening at times and funny at times. I think he should be allowed to rejoin.

I agree.

TBOLTRAM 04-04-2010 09:24 AM

Maybe dawg could be put on special secret probation or something.

angelbear1973 04-04-2010 01:28 PM

I talked to him this morning and he still isnt getting any response from the mods Or Tom

jsconyers 04-05-2010 08:26 AM

I agree with all of the comments on Dawg. I am blind to the situation, but I would like to see him around. He did add some flare to the forums, especially this one!

Back to my original post; I ended up going to Easter Vigil this past Saturday with her and that was quite the experience. It was a 2 hour service. It was at the same church we went to before, however, this time there was a different priest and I actually didn't mind it, even being at the big church.

Even though it was a 2 hour session, it seemed to go by pretty quickly. Still, I have a lot of questions, some things just don't add up for me (yet). I believe that's because I don't know enough of the beliefs. She hasn't been Catholic very long, just over a year, and she has a lot of questions herself. I think that makes it a little easier on me as well. We've began looking at different churches in the surrounding areas as we both think a smaller church would be better.

I will keep you all updated on the progress (if any), for those that are interested.

mriff 04-05-2010 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsconyers (Post 1590029)
I agree with all of the comments on Dawg. I am blind to the situation, but I would like to see him around. He did add some flare to the forums, especially this one!

Back to my original post; I ended up going to Easter Vigil this past Saturday with her and that was quite the experience. It was a 2 hour service. It was at the same church we went to before, however, this time there was a different priest and I actually didn't mind it, even being at the big church.

Even though it was a 2 hour session, it seemed to go by pretty quickly. Still, I have a lot of questions, some things just don't add up for me (yet). I believe that's because I don't know enough of the beliefs. She hasn't been Catholic very long, just over a year, and she has a lot of questions herself. I think that makes it a little easier on me as well. We've began looking at different churches in the surrounding areas as we both think a smaller church would be better.

I will keep you all updated on the progress (if any), for those that are interested.

One comment js, a small one. You might want to make an appointment with the Priest and go sit down with him for a chat. You will be very surprised how that might turn out. You will find out that he will be extremely easy to talk to and has heard what you want to discuss thousands of times. He will not be at all offended with any question you may ask. And I guarantee you that he will not make you feel obligated to choose his church in any way. You may walk away with some counseling that will be very helpful.

jsconyers 04-05-2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1590094)
One comment js, a small one. You might want to make an appointment with the Priest and go sit down with him for a chat. You will be very surprised how that might turn out. You will find out that he will be extremely easy to talk to and has heard what you want to discuss thousands of times. He will not be at all offended with any question you may ask. And I guarantee you that he will not make you feel obligated to choose his church in any way. You may walk away with some counseling that will be very helpful.

mriff,

That is very helpful advice and something I will have to do. It should help clear up some of my uncertainties or it could raise more questions. Either way, it will be beneficial.


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