BlackBerry Forums Support Community

BlackBerry Forums Support Community (http://www.blackberryforums.com/index.php)
-   Sensitive Discussions (http://www.blackberryforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=129)
-   -   President Obama and Evolution (http://www.blackberryforums.com/showthread.php?t=172128)

mriff 02-12-2009 02:55 PM

Nope, not at all Dawg. Just recognising an anniversary of sorts. It's 200 years since his birth and 150 years since he wrote On the Origin of Species. Which offered a theory that has been accepted as the foundation of all life sciences. I think that warrents a little recognition.

mriff 02-12-2009 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSanders (Post 1282910)
He's probably evolved into cricket by now.

Oops, wait, that would be devolve. Whatever. Wrong belief.

Dead organisms don't evolve, they degrade.

djm2 02-12-2009 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1282902)
I dont think he heard you telling him Happy Birthday since he is just buried acording to you all.

Hey, that's a good one, even though (as I stated above) a belief in evolution does not necessarily preclude a belief in a god. I know that you don't believe that, but...

dmead 02-12-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1282902)
I dont think he heard you telling him Happy Birthday since he is just buried acording to you all.

Happy Birthday Savannah Georgia! I'm pretty sure it isn't buried.

JSanders 02-12-2009 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm2 (Post 1282961)
Hey, that's a good one, even though (as I stated above) a belief in evolution does not necessarily preclude a belief in a god. I know that you don't believe that, but...

But, do those two probably do go hand-in-hand?

Dawg 02-12-2009 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm2 (Post 1282961)
Hey, that's a good one, even though (as I stated above) a belief in evolution does not necessarily preclude a belief in a god. I know that you don't believe that, but...

You are correct sir I do not believe that.

djm2 02-12-2009 04:23 PM

In my very unscientific assessment:

- Many are believers in both
- Some are believers in evolution but not in a god
- Some fewer are believers in god but not evolution
- Some fewer yet are believers in neither

Note that I suspect that the modal category is believer in both.

Dawg 02-12-2009 04:53 PM

There is no way that you can believe in the one true God and Evolution.

djm2 02-12-2009 05:22 PM

And that is where your OPIINION and those of many others diverge very strongly. But then I doubt that you have studied much philosophy of science.

Dawg 02-12-2009 05:35 PM

No, I have not. Nor do I need to. But I have studied theology in depth. If you were to ask 90% of all Christians you would find out that they do not believe in evolution. There is NO way you can believe in Christ and believe in evolution. It is impossible.

djm2 02-12-2009 05:58 PM

You are wrong, and that is due to the limits of your studies.

mriff 02-12-2009 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1283212)
No, I have not. Nor do I need to. But I have studied theology in depth. If you were to ask 90% of all Christians you would find out that they do not believe in evolution. There is NO way you can believe in Christ and believe in evolution. It is impossible.

I guess you haven't asked many Catholics, have you? Your 90 percent is WAY off.

JSanders 02-12-2009 07:05 PM

Sorry, djm2, you just don't know enough about evangelical Christianity to understand the difference.

The two are diametrically opposing views. Sure, there are those who do believe the Bible is a errant, historical document. And they may pick and choose from the Bible what and what not they wish to believe. And they may consider themselves Christian. That is fine. If it is in the Bible, I will believe it as the true word of God. If it is a grey area in the Bible, I will seek counsel on it.

But that is all really beside the point when asked the question, "Do you believe Christ died on the cross for you and that you are saved for eternity by His giving his life for you?" The answer to that question is all that really matters.

mriff 02-12-2009 07:20 PM

Thomas Kuhn described what he called paradigm shifts in the gathering of scientific information. That is the phenomenon of a sudden shift in scientific understanding. According to Kuhn, there are stages in which this occurs. Stated simply, the science of evolution passed through these stages thanks to scholars such as Darwin and Huxley. Trust me, the Theory of Evolution was refuted by many, successfully by none. Because of this multipronged approach at refutation, a framework of ideas came into existence. The scientists that continue this study in areas such as evolutionary development continue to build on this framework of ideas such that it can now be called a Theory (read back several pages for a description of what scientific theory actually means before you say 'it's just a theory'). You can read how this occurs in a brilliantly written book by Kuhn titled The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

mriff 02-12-2009 07:29 PM

It still gets down to the original post. Do I want science taught in my children's science class. Scientists have overwhelmingly proven that evolution occurs and it is written into scientific law. Until such time that there is credible scientific evidence to support creationism, then teach it in philosophy class. I'm still waiting for someone to provide credible scientific information that supports creationism.

mriff 02-12-2009 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSanders (Post 1283307)
Sorry, djm2, you just don't know enough about evangelical Christianity to understand the difference.

The two are diametrically opposing views. Sure, there are those who do believe the Bible is a errant, historical document. And they may pick and choose from the Bible what and what not they wish to believe. And they may consider themselves Christian. That is fine. If it is in the Bible, I will believe it as the true word of God. If it is a grey area in the Bible, I will seek counsel on it.

But that is all really beside the point when asked the question, "Do you believe Christ died on the cross for you and that you are saved for eternity by His giving his life for you?" The answer to that question is all that really matters.

Whether you like it or not, this is still philosophy. It is not science. There is no basis in scientific thought. So how does this make it in the science classroom? I really have no problem with teaching theology in Sunday school or in any other classes. But it is still not science. And won't be until it passes rigorous testing. Of which that is not possible.

Dawg 02-12-2009 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm2 (Post 1283235)
You are wrong, and that is due to the limits of your studies.

And as you stated earlier that is your opinion. My beliefs that are given to me by God tell me right from wrong and you sir are the one wrong.

And as far as Catholics go, I wont get in to deep on that subject. All I will say about Catholism is I don't have but one earthly father and he passed away in December. I dont have to go visit my priest to tell him my prayers thats between me and God. I don't do what a Man in funny hats say. I do what the Bible tells me as thats what God tells me to do.

So in answer to your statment about asking Catholics no I haven't asked any of them. I do how ever know many of them that have become recent Christians.

Dawg 02-12-2009 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1283335)
It still gets down to the original post. Do I want science taught in my children's science class. Scientists have overwhelmingly proven that evolution occurs and it is written into scientific law. Until such time that there is credible scientific evidence to support creationism, then teach it in philosophy class. I'm still waiting for someone to provide credible scientific information that supports creationism.

Im still waiting on someone to prove evolution to me. Until then I don't want it taught to my children in public school or atleast teach it as it is THEORY.. Have you ever personally witnessed something evolve?

kjjb0204 02-12-2009 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1283413)
Have you ever personally witnessed something evolve?

Yes. This thread. Great stuff.

Oh, and yes, I saw myself evolve over night. I swear the morning after I turned 35 about 25 grey hairs appeared on my head where there were none the night before.

jsconyers 02-12-2009 08:55 PM

Wow, I never though a simple birthday wish would evolve (for the lack of a better word) into such a debate.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.