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Dawg 02-24-2009 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm2 (Post 1296706)
And that is a fundamental difference. For you there is NO WAY that any evidence can change your mind. For me -- and I suspect others on this thread -- evidence will change our minds.

And as for the "Christ's mother" comment -- cheap shot, even for you.

As I stated before concrete eveidence to prove it with out a shadow of doubt and I will believe, but until some one shows me something in the middle of the evolutional process I wont believe. What do trees evolve into? What are you evolving into. If evolution is true things should still be evolving and they arent.

mriff 02-24-2009 07:06 AM

The evolution of plant life, including trees, is well studied. Massive volumes of information has been written about it. Shall I post up some information for you Dawg? It is so plain to see that plant live has evolved over time. Evolution is all around you my friend. In this very second. You are just blind to it.

mriff 02-24-2009 07:07 AM

Now, again, please present evidence that supports your statements regarding the fossil record. I'm still waiting. And not holding my breath.

mriff 02-24-2009 07:09 AM

Here's the last sentence from the page I quoted yesterday from Catholic.com.

The Catholic Church has no fear of science or scientific discovery.

mriff 02-24-2009 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1296698)
[B][SIZE="4"]
I said this already God allows discovery and you just posted back up for me Believe what you want. When you stand before God its you that has to answer for your sins not me, you are the one who denounces his creations its you yourself that has to answer for it.

Show me where I have denounced his creations.

Quote:

I know for me my faith in God out weights any science you can ever produce. I also know I am no where near perfect but I can ask for forgiveness for my sins and I dont have to ask Christs mother, I can ask God personally.
So can I.

Quote:

Riff you brought your parents into the discussion not me. Once you bring a subject in its open for discussion. So be mad if you want I could care less. if you didnt want them discussed you should have left them out of trying to slam me.
I'm not surprised at all that you could care less.

Dawg 02-24-2009 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1296914)
The evolution of plant life, including trees, is well studied. Massive volumes of information has been written about it. Shall I post up some information for you Dawg? It is so plain to see that plant live has evolved over time. Evolution is all around you my friend. In this very second. You are just blind to it.

Adaptiing to your surroundings is not evolution. If I move to Alaska I know I need a jacket so I buy one.I dont grow fur.

I can write that my computer desk turned into a sportscar that doesnt make it true.

The burden of proof is on the evolutionist. I can look around everyday and see Gods work.

And you denounce Gods work every time you say something evolves. If he didnt create everything then why do you need him?

mriff 02-24-2009 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1296951)
Adaptiing to your surroundings is not evolution. If I move to Alaska I know I need a jacket so I buy one.I dont grow fur.

You might if you and your ancestors lived there for eons.

Quote:

I can write that my computer desk turned into a sportscar that doesnt make it true.
Your computer desk is not a living organism in case you hadn't noticed.

Quote:

The burden of proof is on the evolutionist. I can look around everyday and see Gods work.
Indeed it is. Evolutionary biologists have done an admirable job of outlining the process. So much so, that it is accepted throughout the scientific community. If you ran in those circles, you would know that.

Quote:

And you denounce Gods work every time you say something evolves. If he didnt create everything then why do you need him?
I do absolutely nothing of the kind.

Like I said, I could post up anything you want, but it would be useless. You would not read it. You ignored my post about plant evolution. There are many countless volumes of information on this subject. Look outside. That Magnolia tree you see? That represents a very primitive family of trees. That Oak tree? Much more advanced from an evoltionary perspective. Like I said, I'd tell you more, but you wouldn't listen.

Dawg 02-24-2009 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1296966)
You might if you and your ancestors lived there for eons.


Your computer desk is not a living organism in case you hadn't noticed.


Indeed it is. Evolutionary biologists have done an admirable job of outlining the process. So much so, that it is accepted throughout the scientific community. If you ran in those circles, you would know that.


I do absolutely nothing of the kind.

Like I said, I could post up anything you want, but it would be useless. You would not read it. You ignored my post about plant evolution. There are many countless volumes of information on this subject. Look outside. That Magnolia tree you see? That represents a very primitive family of trees. That Oak tree? Much more advanced from an evoltionary perspective. Like I said, I'd tell you more, but you wouldn't listen.


And I have asked you where God fits in to all of your theory. What is God to you? But you seem to avoid that question as well. If you are a Christian as you say you are you shouldnt be ashamed oif God. It plainly states that if you are a shamed of him he will be ashamed of you.

So again I ask where does God fit in?

That magnolia tree grew from a seed, just like you grew from a baby. Doesn't mean you evolved.

test54 02-24-2009 11:17 AM

where does shame come in? I didn't get that at all. You two are on far sides of the argument and nothing is getting accomplished.

dawg believes that you have to believe in his version of Christianity or you are going to hell. So there isn't much he can be persuaded to believe.
mriff is a scientist who see evidence of evolution and has no reason to think that his Religion has to be thrown out just because of proof of evolution.

I don't think there is a compromise coming. although I do enjoy reading the debating points.

mriff 02-24-2009 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1297125)
And I have asked you where God fits in to all of your theory. What is God to you? But you seem to avoid that question as well. If you are a Christian as you say you are you shouldnt be ashamed oif God. It plainly states that if you are a shamed of him he will be ashamed of you.

So again I ask where does God fit in?

That magnolia tree grew from a seed, just like you grew from a baby. Doesn't mean you evolved.

You have failed to read my comments again and again. I have told you numerous times that where God fits into my view of the world is personal. I worship personally. I don't have to prove to you or anyone how that matters. I am not avoiding the question, I'm simply stating that it's none of your business. I am NOT ashamed of of Him. Never said that, never will. Never. Do you understand the meaning of the word never?

And so how did the seed get there? And yes, hominid evolution is well accounted for. As is the evolution of plants. As is the evolution of all living organisms. But you will not listen for understanding.

One more time. Show me credible evidence of how the alleged great flood caused deposition of all fossils on earth. I'll read it if you show it to me.

mriff 02-24-2009 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by test54 (Post 1297203)
dawg believes that you have to believe in his version of Christianity or you are going to hell.

What a dangerous idea. Other religions believe this as well. And have for eons. Guess what. It leads to fanaticism. And war. And death. When one person believes in one thing above all else including human life? Sounds like some of the extremists that are trying to hijack the Muslim faith.

test54 02-24-2009 02:25 PM

Yes I mentioned that in one thread and it didn't go over well. Its lead to the holocaust, crusades, the Inquisition, centuries of war in the middle east and many other of man's great accomplishments.

mriff 02-24-2009 02:33 PM

I wonder why it didn't go over well test? ;-)

JSanders 02-24-2009 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by test54 (Post 1297464)
Yes I mentioned that in one thread and it didn't go over well. Its lead to the holocaust, crusades, the Inquisition, centuries of war in the middle east and many other of man's great accomplishments.

, and... the founding of this nation and the liberation of France as well and the parliamentarian form of government in the UK AND democratic republics across the world, the beginning of broad public education in Europe and public education across the planet, (breakthroughs in science and medicine included), the freeing of the slaves in the US, billions of dollars of aid to underdeveloped nations.

Amazing how you can only think of the negative in terms of one's religious views. Have you been damaged that bad?

test54 02-24-2009 03:12 PM

Are you just naming things that were done by Christians? or are you naming things that were done in the name of Christianity?

no damage at all and consider myself a Christian. I was merely pointing out some situations where fanaticism got out of control. And most of your examples are great but still had religious fanatics fighting against those things.

JSanders 02-24-2009 03:56 PM

Both, and in each case right won out, and in each case it was Christianity, or the church in general that progressed each cause along it's way.

I guess you're gonna argue those down now?

Yes, I do find it interesting that at first blush you chose to state several negative affects or outcome of fanaticism in the church. And all connected to you and Mriff's lack of understanding. Or refusal. Y'all just seem angry at the church, like you've got a bone to pick and blame it for so many of society's ills. It is so evident reading across this thread.

Given the opportunity, it really seems you will first off blame Christianity.

mriff 02-24-2009 04:07 PM

You're wrong JS. With the exception of one post (331) in which I mentioned the possibility of bad outcomes of extremists who falsely based their purpose in life on religion, I have not made one post about being 'angry at the church'. No bone to pick at all with various religions including my own, Catholocism. Except as you well know, that I don't think creationism should be taught as science in public shool. Which is the original intent of this thread.

Dawg 02-24-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1297267)
You have failed to read my comments again and again. I have told you numerous times that where God fits into my view of the world is personal. I worship personally. I don't have to prove to you or anyone how that matters. I am not avoiding the question, I'm simply stating that it's none of your business. I am NOT ashamed of of Him. Never said that, never will. Never. Do you understand the meaning of the word never?

And so how did the seed get there? And yes, hominid evolution is well accounted for. As is the evolution of plants. As is the evolution of all living organisms. But you will not listen for understanding.

One more time. Show me credible evidence of how the alleged great flood caused deposition of all fossils on earth. I'll read it if you show it to me.

One more time tell me how God plays into your Evolution theory. i will continue to ask. You are avoiding the question because you dont want us to know that he cant fit into both worlds.

Until you answer my question I will not answer yours.

The catholics have persecuted many a person haven't they. Most likely more than any other religion on earth.

JSanders 02-24-2009 04:11 PM

Post #331 is the one I read.

"What a dangerous idea".

mriff 02-24-2009 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1297623)
One more time tell me how God plays into your Evolution theory. i will continue to ask. You are avoiding the question because you dont want us to know that he cant fit into both worlds.

Until you answer my question I will not answer yours.

The catholics have persecuted many a person haven't they. Most likely more than any other religion on earth.

Post 311 Dawg, post 311. I have answered your question. Multiple times. And I'm ignoring your continued nasty comments against Catholocism.

Your turn.


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