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Dawg 03-25-2009 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1331653)
Well, you've admitted that you're not a geologist. So how do you reconcile what you think with what virtually every other geologist on earth thinks? That is that the earth is 4+ billion years old.

Meterologist are experts in their fields and they are wrong daily.

kathrynhr 03-25-2009 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1332067)
Meterologist are experts in their fields and they are wrong daily.

ROTFL!

Meteorologists get paid to speculate. I'm not sure that analogy works.

mriff 03-25-2009 09:54 AM

And even meteorology has matured greatly as a science. But yes, it is not a good analogy.

I'd like to ask you Dawg, what do you make of the Theory of Plate Tectonics?

mriff 03-25-2009 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1332067)
Meterologist are experts in their fields and they are wrong daily.

And really, I didn't ask you what you think about meteorologists. I asked what you think of geologists. But you didn't answer the question. Do you think they are all wrong and you alone are right? Even though as you say, you're not a geologist and they have spent their lives studying geology?

Dawg 03-25-2009 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1332287)
And really, I didn't ask you what you think about meteorologists. I asked what you think of geologists. But you didn't answer the question. Do you think they are all wrong and you alone are right? Even though as you say, you're not a geologist and they have spent their lives studying geology?

I think you already know the answer to that. Same as evolusionist, I think they are wrong. You can spend a life time studying and not understand a dang thing.

Dawg 03-25-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathrynhr (Post 1332105)
ROTFL!

Meteorologists get paid to speculate. I'm not sure that analogy works.

I have never once heard a meterologist say they speculate. Theymay very well do that, but its not what they are paid to do.

Dawg 03-25-2009 05:11 PM

GOD vs. Science
A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the students, 'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'
'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'
'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'
'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'
'Yes.'

'Are you good or evil?'
'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'
'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent.

'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'
'Er...yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'
The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'
'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes.'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'
'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'
'Yet you still believe in him?'
'Yes.'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'
'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

At the back of the room another student stands quietly for a moment before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

'Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'
'Yes, son, there's cold too.'
'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.'

'Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word.'

'In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'

'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.'

The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.'

'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

mriff 03-25-2009 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1332825)
I think you already know the answer to that. Same as evolusionist, I think they are wrong. You can spend a life time studying and not understand a dang thing.

One can say the same thing of ignorance.

mriff 03-25-2009 05:16 PM

The professor ends the argument by saying, 'ever heard of a CAT scan'? Yes, my brain is real and that can be proven in a very simple way. The student is stumped and sits down to attempt to learn about science the way it's supposed to be taught.

Dawg 03-26-2009 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mriff (Post 1332829)
One can say the same thing of ignorance.

So you are calling me ignorant? I am pretty sure thats what I am reading in your post and your signature. So, now I am ignorant and a liar? You can not prove your theory's with out any doubt what so ever, so until you can do that. I don't need you calling me ignorant.

Prove to me right now I have evolved from anything.

mriff 03-26-2009 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1333257)
So you are calling me ignorant? I am pretty sure thats what I am reading in your post and your signature. So, now I am ignorant and a liar? You can not prove your theory's with out any doubt what so ever, so until you can do that. I don't need you calling me ignorant.

Prove to me right now I have evolved from anything.

I have never called you a liar. Lying is something that one does willfully. I don't think you're doing that. But I am calling you ignorant. And wow Dawg, you must be getting paranoid. My signature was not aimed at you. But now that you mention it.....

And on the Theory of Evolution? I have no desire to try to prove anything to you. You will simply not make an attempt to understand. So we will get absolutely nowhere if we try that again.

mriff 03-26-2009 08:25 AM

li-ar noun - a person who tells lies.


ig-no-rant adjective

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.

3. uninformed; unaware.

4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

kathrynhr 03-26-2009 08:51 AM

I am ignorant about many things. That's one reason I am thankful for these forums.

mriff 03-26-2009 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathrynhr (Post 1333385)
I am ignorant about many things. That's one reason I am thankful for these forums.

I am ignorant about many things as well and freely admit it.

mriff 03-26-2009 09:06 AM

Editorial: State ed board should vote down evolution debate | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Editorials

The TX State Board of Education is hearing arguments today and will vote tomorrow on Don McElroy's attempts to add creationism into the science standards. As you may recall from my previous posts, McElroy believes that the earth and everything on it is 10,000 years old. We'll see how it turns out.

mriff 03-26-2009 09:23 AM

From scientificblogging:

Evolution Is Still Alive And Well

snip

For this final installment of 30 Days of Evolution Blogging, to emphasize how successful evolution is as a science (and to illustrate what intelligent design has to compete with if it is ever to be taken seriously - and I confidently predict it never will come close to being scientifically competitive), here are 10 more great evolution research articles published in the first 59 days of 2009. Creationists may personally disbelieve all of this research, but the point is this: they haven't mounted anything close to a scientific attack on evolution. They don't have anything even close to a viable real scientific alternative - there is no such thing as intelligent design research, and the adherents of intelligent design aren't even making a serious attempt to change that fact.

/snip

mriff 03-26-2009 09:30 AM

Ok, this is probably overkill, but I wanted to post this editorial from Don McElroy. It gives a flavor of how he thinks. Frightening, at least to me. And this guy is the Chairman of the State Board of Education!?

McLeroy: Enlisting in the culture war

test54 03-26-2009 09:41 AM

"The controversy exists because evolutionists, led by academia's far-left, along with the secular elite opinion-makers, have decreed that questioning of evolution is not allowed, that it is only an attempt to inject religion or creationism into the classroom."

This guy should not be in control of anyone's education. He sounds too much like a politician.

kathrynhr 03-26-2009 11:42 AM

I have the same problem Test does, with the politics. What shook me up is this quote:

"The first step is to define science in a way that is satisfactory to both sides."

He is using his position to word and reword curriculum and questions in order to pacify everyone. What he ought to be doing is standing up and saying, "This is what group A believes, this is what group B believes... let's expose our children to the arguments and allow them to form their own conclusions." Instead, he thinks if he twists all the words around like the sides of a Rubik's cube, at some point he will have twisted enough that all the sides will fall in line.

Not happening.

And what will kids learn from this? If you can just find the right words, all substantive disagreements will magically disappear into the ether?

mriff 03-26-2009 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathrynhr (Post 1333663)
I have the same problem Test does, with the politics. What shook me up is this quote:

"The first step is to define science in a way that is satisfactory to both sides."

Science is already defined. By myriad scientists and philosophers over the past few centuries. And this nutjob (sorry, I call em as I see em) thinks he can simply rewrite what science means? I don't think so. If these standards are passed, TX will see Dover style litigation occur. At huge expense to the state and the states taxpayers.


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