[CanuckBB]

Originally Posted by The Sand

As for 110/25 I would expect better than that for a Blackberry.net address. I would expect what the others offer in regard to SSL.
Sandy

Blackberry.net addresses are not polled. The servers are internal to RIM. When mail hits the mailbox, they are pushed to the handset. Blaberry.net servers communicate with the outside world like every mail server in the world. SMTP port 25.

[daphne]

Originally Posted by SteveO86

It is possible the level 1 help desk personnel you spoke with was wrong. Given the choice between a printed official document from RIM or the word of an employee. I would have to go with the documentation.

People make mistakes.

QFT

Sandy you are definitely sounding like a broken record, and you are disputing the word of some of THE most knowledgable people on this forum. I would easily believe penguin over a level 1 tech support anywhere including RIM.

[ezrunner]

This thread has been quite entertaining and educational in regards to some security aspects! I swear I heard mentioning of bikinis! Where are the photos I feel so let down I had high hopes. Oh well
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[SteveO86]

Originally Posted by daphne

QFT

Sandy you are definitely sounding like a broken record, and you are disputing the word of some of THE most knowledgable people on this forum. I would easily believe penguin over a level 1 tech support anywhere including RIM.

Gotta agree with you a 100% there. I'll take Penguin's word BlackBerry does rely on it's own proprietary protocol.

Plus you have various BES Admins (With RIM certifications) replying in this thread and you know we are well aware of the differences between BES/BIS and how each works.

[Redchilli]

been reading this thread has been quite entertaining. I always knew that BIS was not secure ( as far back as 2004) and that I needed to upgrade to BES for security. So suddenly I see Sandy in 2010 discovering that BIS is not secure and wants to know all the ports. amusing. chill Sandy, no one wants to know your show.

[SteveO86]

A decent comparison of BIS vs BES.

KB03652-Comparing BlackBerry Internet Service and BlackBerry Enterprise Server features

[The Sand]

I spoke to 3 people by the time I was finished with RIM. And who you are or are not on a “forum” is irrelevant to me, I can’t base my decisions on that. Even if it says “god” by your name. That is why I called RIM.

I am not sure why RIM’s BIS in regard to email can’t run like “Nokia Messaging” (referred to as Nokia Messenger) – also a “server” that is propriety to Nokia, like the BIS is to RIM. Nokia Messaging supports all the popular web based email - and it goes over the line encrypted.

After looking into this further – I don’t think it would be hard for RIM to change this… if they are the leader in security – why is Nokia one upping them in consumer email.

Sandy

[nobody7290]

Why do you think you are safer/more secure with a different system like nokia offering ?
It does not help if nokias servers pull or send the email secure if it is sent or received in unencrypted form to anyone else, or if someone has his hands on the servers.

The point is, unless the email is either encrypted end to end by people you trust or, encrypted on your device and decrypted on the receivers device, you can just send all messages plain text unencrypted, that will make not much difference.

And, there are not many people you can trust. If the UAE has pressed RIM to setup BIS servers in their country so that the authorities there are able to read the customers emails, do you think your email is safe in a more "important" country like the US or the UK ?

[The Sand]

You are right in that SSL takes care of one part... and then PGP and the like would take over. You would need "both" to be completely secure. Even with PGP, SSL is still important...

I am actually hesitant about Nokia's claim there. Nokia devices are mind blowing... Nokia the company sucks. I will check further into it... they do say it though - in black and white. When you roll with a Nokia device, you roll alone - you better be real familiar with running from the command line and programming your own phone - because that is what it's going to take. But if that is your thing - it can be real fun!

Something else to check out is Emoze. Push with encryption on their "infrastructure." It looks like there are some options around if you look into this...

I am just looking into things - trying to figure out a way around this...

Sandy

[SteveO86]

Originally Posted by The Sand

And who you are or are not on a xxx8220;forumxxx8221; is irrelevant to me, I canxxx8217;t base my decisions on that. Even if it says xxx8220;godxxx8221; by your name.

Considering you said this... Nothing we say is going to mean to anything to you.

Therefore I am finished with this thread.. This could have been an informative thread.. However it is border lining a rant at this point.

I am almost questioning the reasons behind this thread since it you have done nothing but to throw comments back us.

The first page was off to a good start but the second and this third is nothing more then a big circle.


----------

"Emoze was founded in 2006 and deployed its push mail service in January 2007."

Yet their website is still not complete and under construction... Yes does not look fishy at all.. but that is a matter for another thread.

[jsconyers]

I agree that you don't know who is posting on this forum and that you don't want to take their word over RIM's, but how do you know that some of the people posting here aren't RIM employees?

Furthermore, you make a point that the title here "BlackBerry God", "New Member", "Thumbs Must Hurt" don't mean much, but take a look at Penguin's post and you will easily see he has consistently volunteered thousands of helpful, informative, and most importantly, correct answers to help others like yourself. I agree with what Daphne and SteveO said. Given Penguin's track record, I would trust that over someone that could be in training at RIM Tech Support.

It has nothing to do with BBF titles, it has to do with the information the individual provides. Check out port3101.com and see all of the benificial information he has contributed over there as well.

At this point, you are getting answers, but it appears as if you have selective hearing (reading) and only want to see what appeals to you and your cause, thus disregarding any pertinent information. This thread is going to go nowhere like that.

[CanuckBB]

By all means, trust Emoze.

By perusing their website, can you tell us who they are? Where they are located?

Most of us have more experience with RIM technologies than the guys answering the phone at RIM.

[The Sand]

I am sorry if my comment came across that way... helping others here is to be commended. Getting help when you have tech trouble can be hard - sometimes forums are the only way. Others and I thank you for your time and the information you provide.

I am just frustrated... and the comment came out wrong.

And I have read and considered ALL posts here.

I also feel like it's just forming a circle.

I don't know if anybody cares but Nokia Messager sounds like they are flat out lying. I did some searching and they say they enable SSL but people running their own servers have said the user name and password can default no SSL and go over in plaint text with nothing.

Emoze is too "new" in my opinion and it doesn't work on BB so whatev for most reading this.

You are still "safer" enabling/configuring your own settings through the native email client on your device. A 3rd party - this includes RIM - can takes things right out of your hands...

Sandy

[lop1]

Oups, there is something I don't understand about the security of my mail from my BB to the BIS.

Sandy wrote :

"When you type a message on the BB it goes to RIMxxx8217;s server or onto the BIS. From the point of writing the message to the server itxxx8217;s encrypted."
So it seems that it is encrypted.

But the security document from RIM says :

"Email messages that are sent between the BlackBerry Internet Service and your BlackBerry device are not encrypted."
So it seems it is not encrypted.

Please can you tell me , is it encrypted or not ?

Can someone read my mail between my BB and the BIS ( I suppose it is the BIS of my operator in my country and not the BIS of the country where I am travelling )

I travel a lot and can't afford to buy a BES and a mail server to get the right level of security. spied by my country or operator is OK ( terrorism , etc...) but spied by a foreign country is not OK.

Thanks in advance for a nice explanation .

[SteveO86]

You can find a hosted exchange/BES for cheap monthly/yearly payments.

However BES will not make emails secure End to End, so we do not want to impose a false sense security.

Another question do you do anything worth spying on?

Since RIM documentation said no, I would have to agree with documentation, but you first have to get the email off the wireless network/RIMs infrastructure and if someone can do that, RIM has a much larger problem.

[lop1]

"but you first have to get the email off the wireless network/RIMs infrastructure and if someone can do that"

If i am travelling in country A , My BB is suppose to communicate with the BIS of my operator in the country B , is there something preventing the operator of country A to read my mail ???

I understand that if i am with BES the mail is encrypted from my BB to the BES and that even if i am in other countries. Is it true that with BIS the foreign operator will have full access to my mail ?

Thanks in advance to clarify this BIS behavior.

[The Sand]

I don't know about how different "countries" handle BIS versus BES.

We do know you are encrypted while on the server and to and from the server with BES. So if you are at all concerned, maybe as Steve086 mentioned, going with hosted exchange would be a good idea.

As far as getting more security for "consumer" email (not using hosted exchange) You can get push email with SSL and encryption using Emoze, Profimail, SEVEN and Nokia Messaging (to name a few) but none of them work with Blackberry.

Sandy

[montevale]

So if I have a hosted excahnge with BES:
1. Would someone who is managing that hosted exchange still be able to see my emails
2. Should I install PGP on my desktop to further secure all outgoing emails... and I'm assuming that then for sure the messages sitting on the exchange server would only be visible to someone with the PGP key only... not to any of the admins snooping around. (Plase no offence to the Admins here, this is simply a security issue as I have no idea who those people may be)
2. if I install PGP on my desktop would I still be able to read my sent emails and replies on the blackbery? (I really do not want to buy a minimum of 10 licenses asked by PGP as a condition, PGP is aksing for over a grand for a min of 10 licenses)
3. If I use outlook for web (instead of the full blown client) would I still be able to see the encrypted messages?
Cheers.

[knightmedz]

Let say I've installed the Gmail app for BlackBerry and selected 'always use secure network connection' in the settings. Would this mean I'm better protected as I will be sure that the packets would be encrypted end to end? Can any of you guys confirm if this is correct? I'm not comfortable being spied on by my carrier either so I don't want to set up Gmail with my BIS subscription. Thanks.

[The Sand]

Read this - it helps to understand what SSL (https) does and what it doesn't do...

Case for Email Security - Why Use Encryption? | LuxSci FYI

I don't use Luxsci, so this is not some add for them, I just found the article useful.

Right now I have a VeriSign cert for Hotmail and Yahoo so I can send SMIME encrypted email through Outlook (but only if the other user has a cert as well.) I installed that cert on my WP7, it can read the encrypted messages but not send. I installed an app for my Nokia N900 and am trying to get that to read/send, but it is buggy to say the least. I installed AstraSync on the Blackberry to get the SSL as opposed to using nothing on the BIS, but can't get the cert installed on the BB. This area is very difficult...


Hope the link helps...

Sandy