[YMS_1975]

Hey folks,

I recently purchased a BlackBerry Tour 9630 from Telus Mobility. This PDA/SmartPhone is equipped to work with a SIM card. Here's the official Telus Mobility BlackBerry Tour 9630 website : BlackBerry® Tourâxxx8222;¢ 9630Â*|Â* SmartphonesÂ*|Â* PhonesÂ*|Â* TELUS Mobility

The problem is, I asked those idiots at Telus Mobility which SIM card would work with this particular BlackBerry model, and their reps (I spoke to two different reps to confirm the information) told me that their Telus SIM Card would work; listed here :
TELUS SIM CardÂ*|Â* AccessoriesÂ*|Â* PhonesÂ*|Â* TELUS Mobility

I purchased this card from Future Shop just last night, and when I inserted the SIM card, the card was registering as "Invalid SIM Card" on the screen. I then looked closer at the description of the SIM card in question, and it states it's good for the "3G+" network, whereas my PDA/SmartPhone is a "3G" device (notice the lack of the "+").

After going back and forth with their "technical support" department, they concluded it was a "defective unit". I've Googled this, and apparently it's a known issue and the device is not compatible with the card. BTW....do NOT buy any SIM Card from FutureShop if there's the remotest possibility that it might not be the right card. I spent close to one hour going back and forth with them about getting a refund. FutureShop told me "I'm sorry but we don't refund or exchange SIM cards." I told them that Telus Mobility labeled it as "defective". One hour lost in arguing for a $10 card. Morons!

Anyhoo...Telus is telling me the card works, many on the web say it's a known issue and those cards don't work, so that pretty much leaves me in limbo. I simply need a SIM card to store my contacts/addresses so that if I have to switch devices, all of my contacts are transferrable. I'm NOT looking for roaming, nor am I concerned about long distance minutes.

The only purpose/need I have for this SIM card is transferability of my addresses/contacts from one device to another (and YES, I do a LOT of that in my business so PLEASE don't ask if it's really necessary).

So WHICH type of SIM Card will work with the Telus Mobility BlackBerry Tour 9630?

[Kirkx]

The easiest way of transferring Address Book, settings, custom ringtones, etc. between different BB devices is to use Device Switch Wizard of the Desktop Manager (installed on your PC). If you need to transfer Address Book between a BB and a regular phone then it's a bit more complicated, you would need to find a software for this.

SIM cards installed in Telus and Bell Mobility BlackBerries are designed to get the phone working on GSM networks outside North America, as both Telus and Bell Mobility are using CDMA (at least for now, they are trying to switch to GSM, so expect to have more fun later because of this). With most (all?) BlackBerries you can't even transfer you Address Book entries between BB device memory and the SIM card.

[Noodle22]

They have launched their new network, that's why they have the iphone now..

But I agree, they are not trained in this and have never dealt with it before. It'll be a few bumpy months with both companies.

[froussy]

The reason why the sim card you bought didnt work its because the sim that are "made" for the 9630 do not have the same carrier id.

The sim provided with the 9630 is for global roaming.. the one you bought, is for the new network. They dont have the same id.

Why would you need a sim for that phone.. it work on their CDMA network.. if you want to use another provider, unlock it and do it

[YMS_1975]

...thanks for all the great info guys (and gal....I noticed at least one of you is a woman)

I didn't know this. Hmmmmm.....ok, so it's the new network which is why they've got this new SIM card, but the new sim card won't work in my BB.

Anyways, I'll be playing around to figure out how to unlock it. After all, it is my baby.

[Noodle22]

I'm glad someone notices I'm a girl ^-^ haha.


Yeah, I expect the next few months to be a bit rocky with Telus and Bell and the upcoming changes they are going through.

[YMS_1975]

Noodle22 >> LOL, awwww come on, who wouldn't notice a beauty like you being a gal? *Poke*

But you know what's odd? The box my Telus BlackBerry Tour 9630 came in actually states it comes with a SIM card, but no SIM card was in the box. I'm wondering if this was a Telus error, or if my box was actually supposed to have a GSM card.

[YMS_1975]

UPDATE :

So I just got off the line with Telus Mobility's technical support department.
According to what he told me, the Telus BlackBerry Tour 9630 is a "world phone" and while you're traveling abroad, the International Roaming SIM Card can be used, however, once you're in Canada it will function in CDMA mode only.

While it is an HSPA device (2100 Mhz), it will only operate in HSPA mode while in Europe. Apparently the 2100 Mhz frequency is what they use in Europe. All other countries/regions abroad (outside Canada), provided you have the Telus International Roaming SIM Card, it will work under GSM mode.

So let's say I travel to Jamaica, India, Pakistan, or wherever (as long as I'm not in Europe) and I have the Telus International Roaming SIM card....the phone will prompt me to select either GSM or HSPA. I should select GSM. If I travel anywhere within Europe, I should select HSPA.

And as long as I'm in Canada....I'm good to go on CDMA.

You know, I must have spoken to at least 7 different people, and they all gave me conflicting answers. But for some reason, what the technical support rep told me seemed to make sense. Anyhoo....I'm beat. All this run-around sure makes a guy tired.

I'm off for a nap.

Peace.

[Kirkx]

At least you have found somebody at Telus who told you what I was trying to tell you two days ago:

Originally Posted by Kirkx

SIM cards installed in Telus and Bell Mobility BlackBerries are designed to get the phone working on GSM networks outside North America, as both Telus and Bell Mobility are using CDMA

And this statement from your friendly rep at Telus is very misleading at best:

While it is an HSPA device (2100 Mhz), it will only operate in HSPA mode while in Europe. Apparently the 2100 Mhz frequency is what they use in Europe. All other countries/regions abroad (outside Canada), provided you have the Telus International Roaming SIM Card, it will work under GSM mode.

I'm far from being a GSM expert, but I travel overseas, including Europe, all the time and always use my BB-8830 in GSM mode, my BB doesn't even have HSPA. Actually the only reason I switched to BlackBerry from a regular phone was that I needed coverage in northern Canada (like Yellowknife or Wawa, Ont), where there are only CDMA networks, and at the same time I wanted my phone to work when I go to Frankfurt, Germany as well.

Europe has only GSM, except for a few CDMA pockets around selected cities, like Warsaw, Poland, but even then you can't access them on Bell or Telus phone because CDMA carriers are notorious for not entering into roaming agreements with their counterparts in other countries. The same story in Africa.

When it comes to HSPA , it is a mobile communications protocol related to UMTS, which in turn is closely related to GSM/EDGE, which is derived from GSM. You might as well google this and check it out, this is much more reliable way of getting information than hanging on the phone with people at level-1 tech support.

Bell Mobility has all information where CDMA/GSM is available on their website. This should look exactly the same with Telus because they use the same technology:

Go to the following web page and select your phone (at the bottom of the first page, under "1. Select Manufacturer"):

Coverage and Travel- bell.ca

In this case I selected my BB-8830, at which point the list of countries appears:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3...2009174754.png

And here are a few examples. The only places outside USA and Canada that have CDMA networks and also roaming agreements with Bell (and most likely Telus) are South Korea, Taiwan and a few Caribbean countries. If a country has both GSM and CDMA network and has CDMA roaming agreements with Bell, then Bell recommends switching your BB to CDMA provider instead of GSM provider. To be exact, when your plane has landed and you turn on the BB, it starts looking for a CDMA network first, and if it can't find it then it looks for GSM network. You don't need to do anything manually, BB will lock on the network that suits it best.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4...2009180049.png
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7...2009180023.png
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7228/11262009175150.png
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4...2009174838.png
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6...2009174901.png
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5...2009174928.png
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6...2009175006.png
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/534...2009175121.png

I expect that Telus has a similar page available somewhere on their website.

Your 9630 Tour supplied with the proper SIM card from Telus should also work in Japan, the only country in the world that uses neither CDMA nor GSM, but a standard called WCDMA. It is a more advanced variation of CDMA, the Japanese, for example, have been paying with their phones like we pay with credit cards, for years. Bell's 9630 and 9530 work in Japan so it should be no different with Telus.

Hope this helps,

Kirk

[YMS_1975]

Originally Posted by Kirkx

At least you have found somebody at Telus who told you what I was trying to tell you two days ago:

Thank you for the sarcasm. Always appreciated.
Actually I read your comment but with so many different versions of what the truth really is, I wanted their side of it.

Originally Posted by Kirkx

I'm far from being a GSM expert, but I travel overseas, including Europe, all the time and always use my BB-8830 in GSM mode, my BB doesn't even have HSPA. Actually the only reason I switched to BlackBerry from a regular phone was that I needed coverage in northern Canada (like Yellowknife or Wawa, Ont), where there are only CDMA networks, and at the same time I wanted my phone to work when I go to Frankfurt, Germany as well.

Europe has only GSM, except for a few CDMA pockets around selected cities, like Warsaw, Poland, but even then you can't access them on Bell or Telus phone because CDMA carriers are notorious for not entering into roaming agreements with their counterparts in other countries. The same story in Africa.

When it comes to HSPA , it is a mobile communications protocol related to UMTS, which in turn is closely related to GSM/EDGE, which is derived from GSM. You might as well google this and check it out, this is much more reliable way of getting information than hanging on the phone with people at level-1 tech support.

Bell Mobility has all information where CDMA/GSM is available on their website. This should look exactly the same with Telus because they use the same technology:

Go to the following web page and select your phone (at the bottom of the first page, under "1. Select Manufacturer"):

Coverage and Travel- bell.ca

In this case I selected my BB-8830, at which point the list of countries appears:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3...2009174754.png

And here are a few examples. The only places outside USA and Canada that have CDMA networks and also roaming agreements with Bell (and most likely Telus) are South Korea, Taiwan and a few Caribbean countries. If a country has both GSM and CDMA network and has CDMA roaming agreements with Bell, then Bell recommends switching your BB to CDMA provider instead of GSM provider. To be exact, when your plane has landed and you turn on the BB, it starts looking for a CDMA network first, and if it can't find it then it looks for GSM network. You don't need to do anything manually, BB will lock on the network that suits it best.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4...2009180049.png
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7...2009180023.png
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7228/11262009175150.png
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4...2009174838.png
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6...2009174901.png
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5...2009174928.png
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6...2009175006.png
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/534...2009175121.png

I expect that Telus has a similar page available somewhere on their website.

Your 9630 Tour supplied with the proper SIM card from Telus should also work in Japan, the only country in the world that uses neither CDMA nor GSM, but a standard called WCDMA. It is a more advanced variation of CDMA, the Japanese, for example, have been paying with their phones like we pay with credit cards, for years. Bell's 9630 and 9530 work in Japan so it should be no different with Telus.

Hope this helps,

Kirk

Thanks for the link & the help Kirk. Much appreciated. I checked out the link; quite interesting. BTW.......the International Roaming SIM Card, as I understand it, would be to use the phone overseas and I'd be billed directly on my Telus Mobility bill.

Just wondering if you've ever used one of these services for the BB Tour 9630 (and if so what what are your thoughts on pricing/coverage) :

http://www.brightroam.com/index.aspx...Fchn5QodJ2l0pg
http://www.ustronics.com/simcarddisplay.php?id=A003
http://www.planetomni.com/Prod_SIM.shtml

On a different note, I subscribed to this thread "Instant E-Mail Notification" and I'm not getting the e-mails whenever somebody replies. Is this a new issue?

[Kirkx]

I read your comment but with so many different versions of what the truth really is, I wanted their side of it.

BB user forums are excellent source of technical information, but try to create a subject line that is very specific and uses technical terms and post in the General section. Then BB geeks will pay attention and respond. In addition to the forums where we are now, CrackBerry forums are popular too (I think there are fewer Canadians over there):

BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

The International Roaming SIM Card, as I understand it, would be to use the phone overseas and I'd be billed directly on my Telus Mobility bill.

Correct. Here are a few tips:

- everything is billed by minute, not by second, so if you talk for 1 seconds you will be billed for one minute.

- if you can hear the phone ringing at the other end but decide to abort the call, there is no charge.

- if you get connected to voice mail of another Telus subscriber, but disconnect before the beep (for leaving the message), there is no charge. This is at least how it works with Bell Mobility voice mail, you would need to check it out on your own with Telus.

Just wondering if you've ever used one of these services for the BB Tour 9630 (and if so what what are your thoughts on pricing/coverage):

International SIM Card, International Cell Phone, World Phone
http://www.ustronics.com/simcarddisplay.php?id=A003
Prepaid SIM Cards for GSM cellular phones International & Europe SIM Card

I don't make that many phone calls overseas and just pay Bell whatever they charge. Surprisingly, their bill is very transparent, all those charges are listed only in one place, so it's easy to figure out how much it really costs. If you intend to use the phone a lot, then checking third party SIM cards is definitely a good idea, although if you remove Telus SIM card you will most likely only get voice calls and text messaging, no data, or, at best, it will get complicated to set up everything to get data.

Also, if you do lots of overseas travel and don't need coverage in northern Canada (N.Ontario, N.Quebec, NWT, YT, NU), and in remote areas in the US, then why not switching to Rogers, their network is purely GSM, like 99% of the planet outside N.America.

One more thing about HSPA, I it's the standard supported but the latest version of iPhone:

iPhone 3G S features 7.2 Mbps, AT&T's network doesn't | Phones | iPhone Central | Macworld

Bell and Telus upgraded some limited number of towers in a few metropolitan areas, eg. around Vancouver (because of the Olympics), which allowed them to start selling the iPhone, it was really hitting their bottom line, big shots in the corner office just couldn't stand Rogers having monopoly on the iPhone in Canada. Good luck trying to figure out from Bell, Telus or AT&T in which cities HSPA is actually available. Apparently, it is available in some cities in Europe, on this side of the pond we are just catching up.

This whole mess with GSM and CDMA can be traced back to the end of 1990s, when mobile networks started to grow fast, there were three competing standards (TDMA, CDMA and GSM) and it was time to make a commitment to one of those standards. Telus and Bell Mobility decided to embrace CDMA, at the time the most popular standard in the USA, and Rogers decided to take a gamble and went with GSM, which was getting popular in Europe.

CDMA was created by Qualcomm Inc, a text book example of a US company that couldn't look beyond N.American borders. They put all kinds of licencing obstacles in place, and wouldn't modify the standard so that it could be easier for the phones from different CDMA carriers to communicate with each other. In the end, carriers from other countries mostly decided to go with GSM. Many technical minds will tell you, that technologically, CDMA is actually superior, but who cares, when in practice it's only used in two big countries, USA and Canada. If you google this subject or use the search button on these forums you can get more info.

On a different note, I subscribed to this thread "Instant E-Mail Notification" and I'm not getting the e-mails whenever somebody replies. Is this a new issue?

No idea, I don't use this feature.

[Kirkx]

I have found this thread on CrackBerry forums, it's all about the latest Bell/Telus/Rogers standards, frequencies, etc, all three pages of it, here is the last page:

BELL MOBILITY - HSPA GSM Coverage 2010 - Page 3 - BlackBerry Forums at CrackBerry.com

[Kirkx]

Originally Posted by Kirkx

Bell and Telus upgraded some limited number of towers in a few metropolitan areas, eg. around Vancouver (because of the Olympics), which allowed them to start selling the iPhone

Gross understatement on my part, they apparently upgraded hundreds of towers coast to coast. I will post a new thread about this: "Bell/Telus HSPA/HSPA+ Network Coverage".