[webmasterpdx]

What do you mean by a link to them? When I use javaloader I can see the actual module and their size. There are no icons that don't run code when I click them.

There are 2 or 3 apps that I don't use that if I click on them ask me to buy them, so these are not full modules, but enough code to install the app. Is that what you are referring to? (like verizon maps and written voice mail).

If so, thats a pretty minor complaint. Everything else is as I said.

Thanks
-D

[Lifetime Ride]

I owned an HTC Touch after a Blackberry Pearl 8100.
I now just purchased a BB Storm.
Storm is great after ROM upgrades but memory is still a problem with the BB's. The HTC Touch accepted an 8 GB Micro SD card and program WERE allowed to be installed to the card. I would think this would be a major objective of RIM or developers to find a way to install programs to cards. Get er done....

[case1212]

Now here is where I show everyone how dumb I can be. I'm used to an XV6800 and frequently downloaded apps from SPB Plus and Handango.

However, I am lost trying to do the same for my Storm.

Could someone please take the time to provide me with step by step procedures to download and install apps from, for instance, Handango?

They won't let me list my email address because I only have 9 posts and need 10.

[case1212]

Perhaps now I can list an email address for my request for step by step procedures to download and install 3rd party apps to my Storm.

[JasonSamfield]

my blackberry storm is full already and i just have 5 applications installed from the app store....what is wrong with their designing this stuff?

how does this compare to the memory available for storing applications on the iPhone?

[JSanders]

Full... at Options > Memory what is your application memory listed as?

I have somewhere between 25-30 third party applications loaded on my Storm with a wee room left for more.

[JasonSamfield]

basically, to compare...the iphone stores the applications on its massive storage drive in the range of gigabytes....the iphone breaks down when the number of pages of application icons is maxed out and appears to be about 150...

the blackberry storm just breaks down when you install more than 128 mb of applications including the operating system....so that really really limits the number of applications and the size of applications that a developer might create for it...

comparatively, the iphone is the winner in applications, but i thought that the blackberry storm is trying to compete....apparently they missed a big one here

[JasonSamfield]

yes, 25-30 applications, but have you been on the new app store?

you say a "wee" bit of room....so go try and install some of the cool new apps on the app store....you can't...you'll run out of room just installing some of the freebies before you even try to search through their listing of over a couple hundred cool applications that are available....

this is a problem for the storm and the success of blackberry and might change the game for me...i might switch to the iPhone if it doesn't get fixed in the way applications are stored...

i have a 1.0 GB onboard storage that needs to be used for storing the applications and not the 128 MB of flash memory...that is poor design by RIM....or let me store them to the microSD cards....that would be great too...

[JSanders]

Wow, people love to throw the iPhone threat around. I guess I've read that threat so many times in the past ~18 months i've become almost immune to hearing it.

Have I been on the AppWorld. I sure have. What's your point?

Go clean out your memory and get rid of some junk and you'll be fine.

[RadHaz75]

if all you do is tout the iphone, then why do you have a blackberry?

the food i buy is terrible but i'm going to keep buying it anyways and just complain about how it compares to good food that i could just as easily choose to buy but don't.

[JasonSamfield]

that's not the point

it's a severe limitation that shouldn't be there...

i got this same treatment the last time i was on these message boards...

just because i'm complaining about the blackberry doesn't mean i don't like it...i'm just upset that these items were missed and i want a solution and constructive advice on how to solve the problem

i want the best phone there is, if that's the iphone, it's the iphone...if it's the blackberry storm or the new hybrid blackberry, then it's that...

i made a decision to wait it out and get the storm because i wanted the surepress and suretype technologies...i believe they are superior

i wish the suretype existed in landscape mode because my thumbs are still too big for the qwerty keyboard and this new hybrid phone sounds cool but they should make the keyboard in the sure type format with shared keys per character that pops out from behind the screen so that the screen size can be maximized and encompass the entire phone, but i can't find any way to communicate my feedback to RIM...hopeless battle

separately, surepress is great for a touch screen...i couldn't be happier

but the OS needs work and this new bug in the amount of application storage is very very limiting feature when comparing the phone to the current decent alternative comparison of the iphone....

blackberry - 128 mb of application memory including the OS
iphone - up to 16 gb of application memory shared with music, video, OS...etc

and apparently i'm not alone...hence this entire thread

any ideas?

the only good stuff that i read was the possibility of a third party application that can force storage and installation of new programs to the 1 GB of onboard memory that i'm not using because i use the 16 GB storage for my media files....but who's gonna make it...does any developer know about this problem? does anybody know a developer that can be contacted to discuss the idea of creating this specific application?

[suicidepact]

To follow up on the Aerize Card Reader post that webmasterpdx stated, I started a thread about this app. I still haven't tried, but some others have with some mixed results checkitout: http://www.blackberryforums.com/gene...nyone-try.html I hope it helps.

[JasonSamfield]

thanks for that post...i'm checking out the Aerize app info right now to see if it's what i need

[suicidepact]

Yeah, wundrbee seemed to have no problems and liked the app alot. The only caveat is that you'll have uninstall then reinstall any apps you want to reside on the SD card. I'm going to try it when I get the time (traveling). I figure my Storm came with an 8 gig SD card pre-installed, might as well use it.

[JasonSamfield]

yeah that was my whole issue with discovering the 128 MB limit as of recently...

i had lots of apps on my phone already, but then the official app store was released and so i started to install some of the freebies and got shafted with only 5 installs because some of the programs are much larger (bloatware) or something to that effect

anyway, do you know if this would work on forcing the applications to install on the remaining onboard memory that is not being used?

1 GB of on board memory - 128 MB is the application memory that gets filled up....instead of installing apps on external cards and such...

like when you go to "memory" and view it, there are three categories "application", "device", and "external media"....

i wonder what the pros and cons are for storing applications on the device memory and if it could even be done if possibly by the Aerize program

i will bring this up in the Aerize thread to see if those users know about it

[spearthrower]

Just been reading this Topic as I have a big problem with my Storm and was hoping to find the answer.
When the updated App World came out yesterday (for us Vodafone Storm users!) I downloaded it and swiftly started downloading sereral apps I thought would be useful.

No probs so far.... I them downloaded A new theme, the PSB theme to be exact from Elecite.
My Storm is running pretty slow by now! So I done a battery pull.
No signs of what was to come.

Not having a Blackberry before I didn't realise (apolgises for my dumbness) that I would come up with a lack of memory, when I was running an 8gb card on top of the 1gb already available (or so I thought but reading this topic I have now learnt otherwise!)

So whats my big issue, Earlier today my screen turned into pixels and re-booted.
Now all I get is a white startup screen with an egg time, and a very slow moving blue progress bar along the bottom.
10mins or so into the startup, a message appears (in the smallest font poss) which says
"Run error 200" (or "App error 200")
"Reset"
And quickly proceeds to restart this process all over again.
This has been running for approx an hour now but it will not startup.

I have tried to link it to my laptop via usb to see if I could restore it but it won't recognise it.
It would appear my failure to keep an eye on my flash memory space, or now lack of has probably led to this.
But how am I going to fix it?, and will I have to lose everything saved on its internal memory?
Sorry to go on, and I hope someone can help me...

[JasonSamfield]

Originally Posted by spearthrower

Just been reading this Topic as I have a big problem with my Storm and was hoping to find the answer.
When the updated App World came out yesterday (for us Vodafone Storm users!) I downloaded it and swiftly started downloading sereral apps I thought would be useful.

No probs so far.... I them downloaded A new theme, the PSB theme to be exact from Elecite.
My Storm is running pretty slow by now! So I done a battery pull.
No signs of what was to come.

Not having a Blackberry before I didn't realise (apolgises for my dumbness) that I would come up with a lack of memory, when I was running an 8gb card on top of the 1gb already available (or so I thought but reading this topic I have now learnt otherwise!)

So whats my big issue, Earlier today my screen turned into pixels and re-booted.
Now all I get is a white startup screen with an egg time, and a very slow moving blue progress bar along the bottom.
10mins or so into the startup, a message appears (in the smallest font poss) which says
"Run error 200" (or "App error 200")
"Reset"
And quickly proceeds to restart this process all over again.
This has been running for approx an hour now but it will not startup.

I have tried to link it to my laptop via usb to see if I could restore it but it won't recognise it.
It would appear my failure to keep an eye on my flash memory space, or now lack of has probably led to this.
But how am I going to fix it?, and will I have to lose everything saved on its internal memory?
Sorry to go on, and I hope someone can help me...

i've received your error before also...the run error 200...it's generally occurred when the OS encountered a problem it could not recover from...it's like a blue screen in Windows...

basically, because there is no advanced manual describing how the blackberry works and how it's processes access memory and what algorithms it might be using to handle memory since it does have an operating system i can't tell you for sure what could be the underlying cause of the problem, but it's possible that the swap space or paging file has become larger than the memory space and instructions are getting executed that exist beyond the user space or system space throwing an exception in the operating system and java virtual machine since most of the software of the blackberry appears to be written in java....

and yes it appears that the application memory is limited to 128 MB of the 1 GB onboard storage while the rest of that huge 1 GB is being wasted because we're all going to store our media files on the external cards anyways...

this is my complaint and feature request for future versions of the BB OS by RIM, but until a solution can expand that 128 MB i think we are stuck at this barrier point

as far as your situation, i would say if the system became corrupted, and you were not backed up to your desktop, you may have lost everything...but it's possible that the OS is performing it's reinstall or updated to the OS...i have not checked, but earlier today i thought i saw a message on my phone indicating a new update for the OS....

you are on the vodafone network so your OS was already updated to a higher version number compared to my verizon....but maybe there was an update applied to both networks today and your phone decided to perform this OS update...

i read somewhere that the update is a large 20 MB file, so that could take a long time to download and then to unzip and install...so maybe the white screen is during your install...sounds like it considering your description of the blue bar...

i would say be patient...try a battery pull and then give it an hour or so and then come back to it...if there still isn't anything, call up vodafone and see if they can see you on the network even though you have a white screen...your phone could still be working with the underlying OS processes even though your display is not showing you anything...so maybe try that

also, have you tried to escape or hold the blackberry button down to see if you can switch applications while it's loading? i've been able to do that once or twice before it actually finished booting up

last point i will make now is that the OS has many of great security features built in including encryption and security tests that it must verify on reboots and also when updating your OS (which might of happened when you weren't looking)....these procedures can get hung up or could just take a long time, especially 128-256 bit encryption on a 500 to 600 mhz processor, so just be patient with it...but i am totally with you...it freaks me out when it doesn't work as it should (or as i expect it to work)...

if none of that works, i would try your computer restoring it again, but if it didn't see it the first time, i don't expect it to see it again...maybe there is a hardware reset that can clear the BIOS of the phone so you can start over completely and possibly to restore it from your PC...but i do not know of such a thing at this point

[JasonSamfield]

I finally found some wonderful information about the memory usage on the BlackBerry.

Memory Management

Managing Memory

The BlackBerry® Java® Virtual Machine manages memory usage on the BlackBerry device. The BlackBerry JVM allocates memory, performs garbage collection, and automatically swaps data between SRAM and flash memory. The BlackBerry JVM must also share available memory between the BlackBerry device applications and the BlackBerry® Java Application. The memory capabilities represent the total amount of available memory, which is larger than the available working memory when all of the applications and associated application data exist on the BlackBerry device.

BlackBerry "Device Memory"
BlackBerry® devices include the following types of memory:

Flash Memory
The BlackBerry operating system and all application modules are stored persistently in flash memory. When a BlackBerry device user turns on the BlackBerry device, the core operating system and the BlackBerry® Java Application modules use approximately 10 MB to 15 MB of flash memory, depending on the version. Flash memory can store the BlackBerry device user's email messages, organizer data, and other personal information, as well as the data that a BlackBerry Java Application stores in memory.

SRAM
SRAM controls the transient data objects and runtime processes.

MicroSD Expandible Memory Card
The microSD card stores media files, documents, and persistent data from a
BlackBerry Java Application.

Key Resources to Reserve

Flash memory
The persistent storage space that is available on the BlackBerry® device is a fixed amount of flash memory, typically in the range of 8 MB to 64 MB.

Persistent object handles
The handles that are assigned to each persistent object are consumed only by persistent objects. The amount of flash memory on the BlackBerry device determines the fixed number of persistent object handles in the system.

Object handles
Each object and array of primitives has an object handle associated with it. The amount of flash memory
on the BlackBerry device determines the fixed number of object handles in the system.

[JasonSamfield]

And also this information about low memory conditions occurring on the system.

Best practice: Minimizing memory use
To minimize runtime memory, consider the following guidelines:

xxx8226; Use primitive types (such as int or Boolean) instead of objects (such as String or Integer).
xxx8226; Do not depend entirely on the garbage collector.
xxx8226; Avoid creating many objects quickly.
xxx8226; Set object references to null when you are finished using them.
xxx8226; Reuse objects as much as possible.
xxx8226; Move heavy processing to the server. For example, you can filter or sort data before sending it to the BlackBerry® device.

Managing low memory availability

The low memory manager handles memory resources on the BlackBerry® device when the available memory resources fall below a certain threshold. The low memory manager attempts to free used memory to provide more available memory on the BlackBerry device. All applications, including BlackBerry® Java Applications, should work with the low memory manager to free as much memory as possible when the BlackBerry device is low on memory resources.

Identifying low memory availability on a BlackBerry device
The following conditions can cause the low memory manager to attempt to free memory resources:

xxx8226; The amount of available flash memory on the BlackBerry® device falls below a certain threshold. The flash memory threshold depends on the amount of free RAM in the system. The flash memory threshold ranges between 400 KB and 800 KB.
xxx8226; The number of persistent object handles that are available on the BlackBerry device falls below 1000 persistent object
handles.
xxx8226; The number of object handles that are available on the BlackBerry device falls below 1000 object handles.

[JasonSamfield]

And finally this information regarding garbage collection by the JVM and essentially memory management and control of the system when in operation.

Garbage collection on a BlackBerry device

RAM garbage collection on a BlackBerry device

The BlackBerry® Java® Virtual Machine initiates a RAM garbage collection operation only when the BlackBerry JVM cannot allocate an object because of a lack of space in RAM. The RAM garbage collection operation typically takes 500 to 600 milliseconds to execute. The garbage collection operation removes any freshly allocated variables that are no longer referenced in RAM. To make sure that the lack of a reference in RAM is a sufficient condition for removing the object, a RAM garbage collection operation can only be performed when objects have not been paged out to flash memory.

Full garbage collection on a BlackBerry device

The full garbage collection operation executes for 1 second on average and should take less than 2 seconds to complete.

The full garbage collection operation performs the following actions:

xxx8226; It performs a RAM garbage collection operation.
xxx8226; It marks objects in flash memory that are no longer referenced or no longer persisted.
xxx8226; It releases any nonpersistent object handles in RAM and flash memory.

The system might initiate a full garbage collection operation in the following situations:

xxx8226; The BlackBerry® Java® Virtual Machine cannot allocate an object because of a lack of available space in RAM.
xxx8226; A process is about to exceed its currently allocated heap size.
xxx8226; The BlackBerry JVM cannot allocate a new object because the object handles are not available.
xxx8226; The BlackBerry device is idle.

Idle garbage collection on a BlackBerry device

Garbage collection does not occur every time that the BlackBerry® device idles. It occurs only when the system considers a garbage collection operation to be beneficial for optimal system performance and maximized battery performance.

To improve performance without impacting the BlackBerry device user experience, the system attempts to perform the following garbage collection operations when the BlackBerry device idles:

xxx8226; A full garbage collection operation can occur when the BlackBerry device idles for a relatively small amount of time.
xxx8226; A thorough garbage collection operation can occur when the BlackBerry device idles for a significant period of time.