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Marmalade · 01-10-2007, 05:25 PM

To be clear this is not in any way a blackberry bash or RIM is doomed thread.

I have watched BB's since day one. My friend works at RIM and I live an hour away from their head offices.

A short background. I am a 31 year old graphic/web designer that works full time and does freelance on the side. I've always loved cellphones and have had one since 98 usually high end Sony Ericssons.
I never liked any of the blackberrys because of their corporate look, image/perception and OS and hardware design. They just weren't cool or didn't do all of the non-email stuff I wanted.

In September I got my first Smartphone as I use text messaging a lot as data plans are too high here to use email regularly. The phone was a Sony Ericsson M600. Cool hardware but overall it was a disaster. Slow slow slow as hell and REALLY buggy. 3 ROM updates later with no improvements.

Then I saw the pearl and took a leap of faith as the folks in my office love their bulkey berries.

Got the pearl at Xmas, got a ok data plan, set up my ISPs IMAP account to get push emails.

The pearl is by far the best phone I have ever used. Not just smartphone but any phone (i've had at least 10 over the years). I got it because it doesn't look like a stuffy BB. It is cool, it is sleek, it is sexy. It is what I like to think myself as ;)

I showed it to my friends who never even considered a smartphone and they were either sold on the spot or said they are waiting for the 8800 for the bigger keys.

But, it does have its downsides. First I have a Nano that I thought it would replace most of the time so I got a 1 gig card. No one will deny the music player on the Pearl is terrible. Not so much for the interface but because of the bad sound. With no EQ all the music sounds so much flatter and bland than the same song on the Nano thanks to the EQ. I cannot use it as a device to listen to music.

Secondly RIM worked very hard to make the phone look cool and sexy but forgot about 90% of the OS. The Pearls interface for emails/SMS's etc is just yucky. I am not looking for any useless flash, all I want is different font sizes colours etc to seperate title from content making things easier to find and read.

Third the keyboard is pretty bad. The Sony M600 was the best i have ever used and much better than the pearls. The smart type software on the pearls is good but I still hate 3 items for one key plus an Alt key etc. Most of all it is just cheap feeling when the rest of the phone isn't. There is no plasic between keys so it wiggles, feels mushy and feels like a tall button glued to something soft deep in the phone.

I do not need exchage support, just push email which I do get and am happy with.

ROM updates aside it works well enough on my Mac. Bootcamp takes care of the ROM updates.

OK all that aside NONE of those things would make me want to leave the pearl. Not at all. I still think it is the best thing on the market.

The Pearl's market was to target me. The non-suit customer that needs email but wants it in a small cool package that also serves up a camera, MP3's and videos. It worked for the most part.

Until yesterday.

I know some of you might hate to hear me say it or think I am the minority but the iPhone is what RIM wanted the Pearl to be.

The iPhone is everthing I expected from not only the Pearl but from a phone I have dreamed of for years. All my friends who wanted to get a pearl or 8800 now want the iPhone and I can't blame them.

Other than exchange and lots of security that I don't use the iPhone beats it.

Now the iPhone is not going to replace all blackberries but it is definitely a large large chunk of the PEARLS intended market.

Even then my office which is all about exchange is going to get the iphone to replace their non-pearl BB's as they ALL have iPods + a BB and want convergence even if there is a cost to pay.

Now I love my time with the Pearl and will have it for at least 6-8 more months till I can get an iPhone. I'll still be all over these boards in that time getting wallpapers and ROM updates.

I am posting this more because I am sad about leaving the BB but it doesn't make sense for me to keep the pearl over an iPhone.

I really hope RIM does well in this consumer space as they deserve it. Unfortunately Apple overnight made EVERY phone out there look like a dinosaur. Sure it isn't perfect, costs more and is missing the odd feature but I cannot find anything on the market today or near future that comes even close to the iPhone for even double the price.

The Pearl really changed my perception on BB's and it is great. Hopefully in the future they can come out with a device to take on the iPhone but the 8800 or pearl is not that phone for me.

So again thanks RIM for the Pearl, it was a great first effort.

mckinneycm · 01-10-2007, 05:29 PM

Another iPhone thread?????????

canonbomb1987 · 01-10-2007, 05:34 PM

The Pearl is suppose to be a smart phone, not an mp3 player or a medai center. If you compare it to smart phones like the Q or the BlackJack, it is the cream of the crop. I think that it is unfair to compare it to something like a nano, whos only job is to play mp3's. As far as the iphone goes, who says that its OS wont be flawed. I think that RIM is on the right track with the Pearl and the 8800.

8100c

Marmalade · 01-10-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canonbomb1987

The Pearl is suppose to be a smart phone, not an mp3 player or a medai center. If you compare it to smart phones like the Q or the BlackJack, it is the cream of the crop. I think that it is unfair to compare it to something like a nano, whos only job is to play mp3's. As far as the iphone goes, who says that its OS wont be flawed. I think that RIM is on the right track with the Pearl and the 8800.

8100c

I am not comparing it to a Nano. I am comparing it to the iPhone.
If they didn't want it to play music why did they include a media card, headphones and push that it now does the "cool" stuff like take pics and play music and videos.

What is a smartphone to you?
Calendar/Agenda
Email
SMS
Maps
Browser

Anything else?

If not the iPhone has all those things plus much much more so I guess it is a smartphone. Sure the OS could be flawed but remember it is a stripped down OSX not some bland/simple phone OS or windows CE mess. If it works like it should then what?

YES next to any other smartphone it is the best no doubt at all. Next to the iPhone and things aren't so black and white.

canonbomb1987 · 01-10-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marmalade

I am not comparing it to a Nano. I am comparing it to the iPhone.
If they didn't want it to play music why did they include a media card, headphones and push that it now does the "cool" stuff like take pics and play music and videos.

What is a smartphone to you?
Calendar/Agenda
Email
SMS
Maps
Browser

Anything else?

If not the iPhone has all those things plus much much more so I guess it is a smartphone. Sure the OS could be flawed but remember it is a stripped down OSX not some bland/simple phone OS or windows CE mess. If it works like it should then what?

YES next to any other smartphone it is the best no doubt at all. Next to the iPhone and things aren't so black and white.

Thats why i called the iphone a media player/center and not a smart phone. Sry for the confusion. I like the iphone too, but its only been out for less that a day and everyone is already calling it the greatest thing on Earth. BTW to me a smartphone is a cell that can perform the functions of other devices, ie PDA.

8100c

mckinneycm · 01-10-2007, 05:45 PM

It won't convert a lot of users that like the keyboard feel and are used to standard smartphones. I had a touch screen phone before and couldn't stand it. It's just another toy for the teenagers, not something the average smartphone user will latch on to.

Pizzle · 01-10-2007, 05:46 PM

If all this is going to be is an argument about BB versus iPhone, this is moving out of a productive BB forum.

***moving to "Other Handheld" thread***

Marmalade · 01-10-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canonbomb1987

BTW to me a smartphone is a cell that can perform the functions of other devices, ie PDA.

I hear that but please tell me how the iPhone isn't a PDA/smartphone with those terms?

To me a PDA usually means touchscreen (which BB's don't have at all) and a agenda.

Yes it is all too soon to tell but I have been a Mac user from day one and have never seen Apple announce a product only to have the final version drastically different or so buggy it is unusable. If the iPhone is HALF of what they said it was supposed to be it still outdoes the pearl in many ways.

greggebhardt · 01-10-2007, 05:50 PM

If you think the iPhone is better than a Blackberry, you had no business buying one and I doubt you even needed a Blackberry.

Blackberrys are for email, they do it better than any other device. You try typing even a medium size email on a touch screen. While I think the iPhone will be a nice phone and they will sell ALOT of them, it is far from being able to replace what Blackberry does for those who depend on email for work everyday.

They might tempt some SideKick users but not a real user of the Blackberry!

The mods need to move this to the kiddy section!

backbeat · 01-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

Blackberrys are for email, they do it better than any other device.

Agreed. However, RIM obviously wants a larger slice of the pie by appealing to the consumer market segment with the Pearl and 88/8900, where email is only the equal feature to media capabilities.

Quote:

The mods need to move this to the kiddy section!

Maybe they can save you a seat.

Mark Rejhon · 01-10-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

The mods need to move this to the kiddy section!

Since I am a user interface designer and understand the market, I think that Marmalade brings up some good points. This thread would actually probably be pretty useful feedback for RIM market researchers.

While this thread might have needed to be moved to this Handheld forum (I'm not the one who moved it), it is not a kiddie post. While I am deaf, and have no use for music audio, I know that RIM wanted to aim at the consumer market with the Pearl. Marmalade does bring up some sensible points, even though the iPhone is unproven (no reviewer has their hands on one yet, it could be a buggy platform). I do respect Apple products even though I have never owned one - they did make an impressive entry and it is certainly going to affect the BlackBerry market to a certain extent (unfortunately), because RIM was just beginning to market to consumers (late in the cellphone game), and this will just make a slightly harder -- but this may produce a little new innovation at RIM, for example. Obviously, BlackBerries will always be better at many things, but there are some interesting tricks that the iPhone has, that will certainly siphon off at least some consumer-BlackBerry users (the market where people who buy their own BlackBerry).

Also, it is kind of silly to compare the iPhone to either a BlackBerry or Sidekick. The iPhone is far more professional than a Sidekick -- it has some amazing software on it for example - I've been reading extensively about this device, and it is a serious device rather than a Sidekick item. Also, I'll probably eventually buy an iPhone as a PDA once hype dies down a bit and availability goes up (I won't be activating phone service on the iPhone) -- it's literally a full pocket computer that uses MacOS X and has excellent video and photo viewing (H.264 640x480 megabit-level video viewing cability, 3D graphics) and I'm really interested in writing application software for it). It also has the best mobile web browser user interface I've ever seen - very easy to pan and zoom in/out (put two fingers on the multitouch-capable screen and pinch to zoom in/out, as if stretching a flexible sheet!). I am hoping that it can be programmed to do this over a Bluetooth connection, so that the iPhone can use my BlackBerry as the data connection for its web browsing too -- and also, it should be compatible with my existing ThinkOutside Stowaway Bluetooth keyboard I use with an older iPaq (which is superior to the ThinkOutside Shasta for BlackBerry). And I'm a deaf guy who doesn't have a use for its iPod feature. It may very well be the first Apple product I am buying, even if I never want to use it for email.

However, I totally understand why many Pearl owners will be giving it up for an iPhone. The iPhone has the best touchscreen I have ever seen (and from the video demonstrations, I am inclined to agree), even though I prefer a tactile device for fast text entry. However, there are many people out there who really just needs a phone that does better email/web than a regular phone, and not everyone needs full-fledged BlackBerry email, and there are many people out there who just casually choose a BlackBerry Pearl (from HowardForums, you can see MANY Sidekick people who switched to a Pearl -- alert, alert -- important point! -- and aren't afraid to switch to an iPhone).

People know me I am a total real user of a BlackBerry. Just look at my BlackBerry FAQ. It is kind of funny to consider me not a real BlackBerry user, if I am actually even thinking of eventually buying an iPhone (although not for the reasons you'd expect!).

RIM won't lose business customers because of this, but RIM will lose at least a portion of the "potential" consumer market to Apple. This does not necessarily mean fewer BlackBerry users, since Apple is only aiming at 1% of the market in their first year -- but there is enough of a loss of potential market to worry RIM. Shareholders agree with me -- they knocked a few dollars off RIM. (Disclaimer: I am a RIM shareholder. But I did NOT sell my RIM stock -- still holding onto it)

Anyway, this iPhone device may very well be crap once it is actually on the market - buggy and problematic - but I do admire Apple's ability to pull things off with some very interesting products, and they tend to have a relatively good track record in the most recent few years. Apparently, they are becoming like a better Sony...

Let's keep discussions here productive. I don't see Marmalade is not attacking members here. I know that some some BlackBerry users may react negatively to other people who give up on BlackBerry and switch to another platform; but we should not get all upset over it, it will just make them less likely to come back once RIM releases something that is a major improvement...

There are apple zealots out there, and there are BlackBerry zealots out there. Let's all be neither -- Keep an open mind. It is okay to criticize BlackBerry politely. (I sometimes feel there should be a "BlackBerry Feedback & Imperfections" forums here - a good place for RIM to monitor)

Disclaimers:
I am a RIM shareholder (I'm holding: I did not sell when I heard of iPhone.)
I have never owned an apple product.
(These two little points adds weight and credibility to my post here: Look at me "sort-of" defending iPhone, something I never really thought I'd do)

I8UB4 · 01-10-2007, 07:04 PM

Marmalade,

As a convert from a treo 600, 650 and a Nokia E70, I, like you, think that the Pearl is the best phone I have ever owned.

I was also very impressed with the iPhone demo that Steve Jobs gave yesterday. It is an incredibly sexy device with a killer UI and visionary technology.

My enthusiasm is tempered, however, by my past experience with smartphones. They look great on paper, but when you start to use them, they have major issues.

That is the reason why I like the Pearl so much. It doesn't do everything and doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but what it does, it does perfectly. It has the best email solution by far, great reception, a stable OS, fast email, decent multimedia, and a small, sexy form factor. It's simple and intuitive.

I will be the first one in the stores trying out the iPhone and I'll be reading all of the forums to see how well it works in real life. Then, if the reviews are all positive after a few months - and I can get reliable push email - I will take the plunge and pick one up.

But right now, I'm still skeptical.

rkkeller · 01-11-2007, 11:19 AM

Where is my violin ?

Mark Rejhon · 01-11-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkkeller

Where is my violin ?

Cue the fine and luxurious music, as we go into the "we wait and see what happens" mode.

mysmyrrh · 01-12-2007, 09:54 PM

Wirelessly posted (Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.0.6636/1558; en; U; ssr))

Your heart was never in the right place for the Pearl. Those iPhones are gonna be a big wormy bomb. Just wait and see. Cisco is already suing over the name, which in the end will drive the cost up even more. You'll be sorry.

GQBalla · 01-16-2007, 10:51 AM

i will definately be gettin a iPhone when it comes out

GregH-BBPearl · 01-17-2007, 11:07 PM

I think you are in for a big let down.

Good luck with touch screen, how long will it take you to text? Good luck with email, with yahoo/iphone/email. Everyone knows you can't beat "push" period.
Oh and I bet you have to pay yahoo for that as well when the time comes! I suppose a two-year with cingular is on pare with other companies, but the phone is selling for 600 bucks, so will you get a break on that with the contract? I really can see a lot of unanswered questions, yet you are ready to explode!

Music sounds bad? Maybe you have crappy mp3s or acc's to begin with so you need the extra equalizer. I'm listening to music right now from my pearl and it sounds great!

After reading your post about a phone that uses someone else name and isn't even out yet I can tell you really don't know what you are talking about. I mean besides the fact you are about to orgasm over something that we have yet to see/use/try it is obvious you have your own image of a phone you want, but doesn't exist.

Hey all I can end with is good luck with iphone.
I'm not sure I wouldn’t buy one, or eventually use one. I will however keep a reasonable head about it and not loose my load before I eat the pie! <wink>

jfisher · 01-18-2007, 08:11 AM

jesus christ - enough with the iphone lovefest already. it's got an awesome interface - THATS IT. technology-wise it's not got much extra - multitouch has been floating about as an interface demo for months online and there's been an audio interface that uses several fingers at once on the market for over a year.

it's slick - and that's all. very slick - but they've not reinvented anything.

i bow down to the apple marketing strategy, it's brainwashed millions.

YMark · 01-18-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfisher

i bow down to the apple marketing strategy, it's brainwashed millions.

I agree, their marketing reminds me of Bose. The difference is that Apple products have substance, Bose blows.

backbeat · 01-18-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YMark

I agree, their marketing reminds me of Bose. The difference is that Apple products have substance, Bose blows.

Bose only started to 'blow' when they changed their business model to grab the consumer mass-market around 10-12 years ago. Their pro gear is still some of the best for its class level however. I'm not particularly impressed by the compressed audio of any source. It all sucks. Long live analog!

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The Pearl is the best phone I have had.. but I have to leave it because of yesturday