[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by aiharkness

Dallas, I do get it. Don't nitpic what I'm saying.

First, back in that earlier time frame, the time zone issue was silly to me in the passion it provoked. There were probably two or three posts a week on average, and sometimes more than one per day. Just as today, nobody searches, and the time zone complainers were hot about this shortcoming. It colored their whole outlook on the BlackBerry. I just thought it was a small deal, and yes, a stupid complaint. If you were one who was complaining about it back then, I have no problem saying again, it was a little, a very little deal.
Today, the automatic feature nice. It is an improvement, and RIM did it right. Not like for a colleague who almost missed an early morning flight because a bug with a local tower or something reported the wrong time and his dumb iphone changed the time without warning and his alarm was an hour off.

Second, I never mentioned BES, you did. And locked down probably has a different meaning for you than I meant it. Re-read my post in the full context of what I was saying about my thoughts that RIM should have created another brand. You are making assumptions about what I'm referring to and what exactly I mean when I'm talking generally about years reading the forum and people complaining about stuff compared to their experiences with a prior device.

Many times I read the back and forth in a thread like I'm referring to and I think to myself that I'm happy the BlackBerry is the way it is, and I wouldn't want it to be the way the complainer would want it to be. It is for those people that I sometimes think it would have been better for RIM to have created a different brand instead of trying to sell them BlackBerrys.

I've never said BlackBerry is superior. It is what it is. It has a different focus. It works for me. Use what works best for you. And look at the entirety of a post instead of needling this and that little point.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

I wasn't nitpicking what you were saying at all. I know you didn't mention BES, but you mentioned that those who complained that Blackberry didn't interface with other devices "such as via BlueTooth", were uninformed/stupid because the reason for that was that BlackBerry was "locked down." Yes, I brought up BES at that point, because without BES, BlackBerry is NOT locked down. And you said (and repeated) that the complaints about no automatic time zone changes were also "stupid", so I was reminding you that no, they weren't, because eventually RIM finally managed to make BlackBerry do what other phones (and smartphones) had done for a long time. That's a whole different complaint then complaining that people don't search and post redundantly.

Yes, I thought that the fact that my (numerous) BlackBerry's would never automatically switch time zones (until my OS6 Torch) was stupid, but no, I didn't bother posting that here ever, because I saw the existing postings about it.

Now I will say that your thought that RIM should create a totally different brand/device for consumers is pretty dumb. I don't see ANY smartphone manufacturers doing that - different lines for business vs. consumer. As I said, RIM already has a superior mechanism for taking one single device and making it work well for consumer and business - and that's BES with its controls and capabilities. Does that mean that BlackBerry is a competitive consumer device today? No, they let themselves fall behind, no doubt. But they certainly can/could make a very competitive consumer device, and then use BES to lock it down into a best-of-class secure business device. Two distinct and separate product lines is a pretty lousy idea - the huge win is to provide the best, most flexible products satisfying both sets of requirements.

Obviously BlackBerry works for me too, I'm still using one - my 5th or 6th over the last 7 years or so. Like anything else, they're superior in some ways, and inferior in others. And they still have some "features" which are so dumb as to be mind-boggling. The most obvious which comes to mind is that the setting for turning off mobile data services ALSO turns off WiFi data services. That's just dumb, but its there. And I continue to use my 9800 despite dumb stuff like that, because like you, it works best for me.

[aiharkness]

User error....deleted double post.

[aiharkness]

Sorry. No. I didn't intend that I think the later complaints were stupid or invalid. I'm responding to another post and I say I have mixed feelings, and why, and how my thinking has developed. I was trying to draw a distinction between what I view as overblown types of complaints and those complaints that are valid maybe for some types of users. And the additional point I'm am making is that from my perspective those later things that peoplle were complaining about, like the hassels of BT file transfers, BT transfers of contact lists, etc. were on purpose. My memory on the exact complaints is a jumble. Suffice it to say my impression after reading both sides of the debate is I was left with the impression that what the complainers had a problem with is the way it is for a reason, and it made sense to me. You can say it doesn't make sense, fine. I'm not arguing the point.

Also, not to beat a dead horse, on the time zone thing, it was the whole issue and how the complainers, in my opinion, were making a mountain out of a mole hill. The fact that RIM later added the automatic feature doesn't mean it was a mountain. Stupid probably wasn't the right word for me to use. I'll say the whole argument back then was rediculous, in my opinion.

My thought that RIM maybe should have created a different brand may be dumb. I admitted as much myself. Or, by idea of brand may be close to your idea of line, except I'm thinking different name for the other line. You and others say RIM can and should satisfy everyone with BlackBerry. I'm not convinced. All I know is what I read and the little of that which I can understand.

I thought my profile was obvious, but maybe not. I'm a user, a consumer, with average or above average experience with computers and BlackBerry. But consumers are not some group of exactly like minded people. I don't use BES, don't want it, but neither to I want an open device, if open is what I think it is. I value security way more than convenience. When I read about rooting android devices and jailbreaking iphones, I think no thanks. Not that an iphone appeals to me, but if Apple can't prevent jailbreaking, why should I consider buying an iphone? Maybe I don't understand, but I go with what I think I do understand, and my priorities.

You say, I guess, that we can both have what we want in a BlackBerry if RIM would just make it so. I'm not sure.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by aiharkness

My thought that RIM maybe should have created a different brand may be dumb. I admitted as much myself. Or, by idea of brand may be close to your idea of line, except I'm thinking different name for the other line. You and others say RIM can and should satisfy everyone with BlackBerry. I'm not convinced. All I know is what I read and the little of that which I can understand.

You say, I guess, that we can both have what we want in a BlackBerry if RIM would just make it so. I'm not sure.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

So I guess Apple is doomed then, huh? Because obviously their strategy is that everyone can have what they want in a single phone. I think RIM has several pieces of technology enabling them to do a better job than Apple at the "one phone for everyone" strategy. Whether they leverage those pieces to the max and develop the right device remains to be seen, of course.

[aiharkness]

I truly don't get your logic. It may be that Apple's strategy is one size fits all, but it doesn't mean it's possible. Apple's strategy does not make it fact that it can be done. And isn't Apple still aways away from proving it? On the other hand, it also doesn't mean Apple is doomed if it is wrong.

I do hope you are right, though, because it would mean less risk RIM is going to compromise on BlackBerry in going after "the consumer" who is in actuality the least common denominator.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile