[ashleyneiltaylor]

Originally Posted by Tailor

Sorry, That's a lot to ask!
on another train of thought though, have you anything in your APN settings under Options->Advanced->TCP ?

mobile.o2.co.uk

[acday]

O2 blackberry support told me today, they don't support Blackberry services over wifi; just over their network. So only the internet browser will work over wifi. Any heard anything different?

Thanks

[ashleyneiltaylor]

Originally Posted by acday

O2 blackberry support told me today, they don't support Blackberry services over wifi; just over their network. So only the internet browser will work over wifi. Any heard anything different?

Thanks

Sorry to be blunt, but they are talking bollocks. The Blackberry applications certainly work over wifi. To be fair, I have found O2 support to be limited. One reason to get a support agreement with RIM. Rereading O2's comment, they may not "support" over WiFi, but that doesn't mean it won't work.

One thing I did find over the weekend..... since upgrading the OS, WiFi stopped working at home. I reconfigured the WiFi, but it still didn't work, so as a last resort, I rebooted the router and all of a sudden it started working again.

[acday]

Whatever "support" they provide; have you got the wifi icon to turn black (instead of grey) on O2 with BIS (not BES)?

I still can't despite resetting the 8120, router, trying different routers; resending the service books, trying to select the wifi HRT manually etc. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

[Tailor]

My business account manager at o2 told me that all services would work but when i got the 8120 they didn't!
I called support to sort it but they didn't know what i was talking about and also told me they didn't support it.
I went back to my account manager who got someone senior in technical to look into it.
I have spoken to the technical guy who also has it working on a 8120 with BES like ashleyneiltaylor.
I'm currently waiting him to come back to me in a BIS only environment so i'll post back when i find out.
I have traced it at the router and the blackberry never sends anything to try and get blackberry up on the WiFi so either something happens first over the mobile network which is failing or there is some config missing on the device like services books.
It's driving me crazy at the moment, i can't deal with owning anything which doesn't function fully!

[Tailor]

Originally Posted by acday

Whatever "support" they provide; have you got the wifi icon to turn black (instead of grey) on O2 with BIS (not BES)?

I still can't despite resetting the 8120, router, trying different routers; resending the service books, trying to select the wifi HRT manually etc. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

No, my icon is grey too, i have tried everything on the device as well, whatever the issue it needs something more from o2

[acday]

From what I understood, the not supporting Blackberry services over wifi - means you are forced to use their GPRS/ EDGE service for emails and.....hence data charges; which you'd otherwise avoid....
ie. it is commercially beneficial for them not to support wifi fully; but then internet use via wifi uses far far more data.....so why not the other way round.

[ashleyneiltaylor]

Originally Posted by acday

Whatever "support" they provide; have you got the wifi icon to turn black (instead of grey) on O2 with BIS (not BES)?

I still can't despite resetting the 8120, router, trying different routers; resending the service books, trying to select the wifi HRT manually etc. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

My WiFi icon is black.

Interesting, just done a test. Sending a memo from my BES account, it definately uses Wifi.

Sending from my google account, it uses EDGE/GPRS. Not noticed that before.....


So I guess the full answer is..... If you are on a BES, you can use WiFi. If you're on BIS, you can't.

So O2 should say, At this point in time, that it'll work on BES, but not on BIS.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that O2 seem to be upgrading their infrastructure, because more and more locations I'm going to in the UK are EDGE enabled.

[Tailor]

i will get it working on BIS, not giving in!
As i understand it, the stonking EDGE coverage we are experiancing is thanks to the iPhone which can't do 3G.
I wonder whether O2 had to do this to get the exclusivity deal out of RIM.
Suits us whatever!

[Tailor]

Just thinking about what you're saying and in order for the WiFi to work over BES your BES server needs certain ports open and accesible from whatever WiFI you are accessing, this is documented at RIM's Site
The BES server clearly has connectivity to the global Blackberry infrastructure and so if you are linked to a BES you can get BIS working.
If you are on BIS then effectively you are just connecting to your providers BES server.
If this is all true then it would appear that O2 just haven't opened the relevent ports on their servers!?!?

[ashleyneiltaylor]

Originally Posted by Tailor

Just thinking about what you're saying and in order for the WiFi to work over BES your BES server needs certain ports open and accesible from whatever WiFI you are accessing, this is documented at RIM's Site
The BES server clearly has connectivity to the global Blackberry infrastructure and so if you are linked to a BES you can get BIS working.
If you are on BIS then effectively you are just connecting to your providers BES server.
If this is all true then it would appear that O2 just haven't opened the relevent ports on their servers!?!?

Not necessarily. You do not need to be able to connect directly to the BES for it to work over WiFi. Even if you can connect to the Blackberry Infrastructure (in our case rcp.eu.blackberry.com) you will be able to communicate with the BES. We only have the default ports open on our Firewall.... note when I'm at home, I only connect to the Blackberry Infrastructure, not my BES because I don't have a VPN session running.

Not sure why it won't work with BIS though. I can't think it a port issue, but I may be wrong. Actually now wondering if this is a Service Book Issue

[HuwSy]

Is there anyway the BES service books can be transfered to a BIS device to allow this? Or do any of the hosted BES services available support this, and the uk for that matter?

[Tailor]

Service books when backed up do not contain the gateway IP so i would say it is not possible to transfer the books.
I have continued to try and work this out and may have stumpled across something, let me share my thoughts!
The Wi-Fi service books are there even after a default without a SIM abeit they have no gateway address.
After connecting to the GSM network their IPs are configured.
The WiFi Browser book is given a gateway IP for RIM at their Canadian office.
The WiFi IP Transport book is given a local class A address which I would have to imagine is one of O2's servers, certainly it would only be accesible over their network, maybe the mobile network or their cloud WiFI. It is 10.1.20.203.
Assuming that this book is named appropriately and it really is responsible for transporting IP over the WiFI then it isn't going to work as 10.1.20.203 is not accesible over the internet, like i said it's a private address. However as it never makes a connection over WiFi it possibly isn't receiving a public one.
I've gone some way to proving this as i have traced the traffic hitting my router from my blackberry and i only see something if i use the WiFi browser, connecting and restarting the handset, turning off the mobile aerial, etc. sends nothing.
Furthermore, if you leave the WiFi running and turn off the mobile network the gateway IP is removed from all service books.
Now this is where i get a bit stuck, i assume that the device would connect to the Blackberry infrastructure based on the Host Routing Table, the first entry is a GPRS one and the second WiFi.
The WiFi one is a SSL connection to RIM in the UK and is reachable over the WiFi but the device doesn't connect to it or even try.
I assume if it did then it would get the gateway IP's for all the service books.
I guess the question is why doesnt the WiFi one make a connection, is the GPRS one supposed to move down the list when it isn't connected or is there something else wrong with the entry, you can view the entry in my earlier post.
I'm still wating for O2 to come back to me, in the meantime all thoughts welcome!

[leatherface]

i encounter exactly the same as you concerning the HRT or the service books.
perhaps if you find the fix it will help me too.....

[Tailor]

Originally Posted by leatherface

i encounter exactly the same as you concerning the HRT or the service books.
perhaps if you find the fix it will help me too.....

Presumably you're WiFi IP Transport book is given a different IP whilst connected to the mobile network ?

[leatherface]

If I can't fix this issue i think I'm going to get rid of that device and get another BB without wifi.... it drives me totally crazy.

[Tailor]

Incidently, i've just got a new sim and am just waiting for o2 to put on the blackberry service and i have no host routing table and the WiFI transport book has the same internal IP address in it. All other blackberry related service books are empty.
So that leaves me at a loss whether the blackberry infrastructure is connected via a service book which in turn feeds the HRT or because the HRT is populated and that allows the service books to be updated.
If it is the case that the info in the service books is used first then i can understand why you can't connect,it's that local address they are giving out.

[Tailor]

IT WORKS!!!!!!
The blackberry service has come up on the new sim and the WiFI connects too.
WiFi icon is black, status is green, can use everything with the Mobile network switched off, etc.
My old Sim, which is a 1yr old (Used to give me 3G in a XDA) is still active, on the same contract with blackberry working but if i put it back in my 8120 the WiFi can't connect, it tries but fails and then doesn't try anymore. Put the new SIM back in and up she comes, WooHoo.
Looking through all my previous tests nothing has changed in any service book or the HRT, certificates, security nothing.
There may be an additional service book i'm not sure, its BBFS2[KEYNEGO]
I don't remember seeing it before but then i was concentrating on the WiFI ones which haven't changed.
I'll stil try and find out what it was as O2 are still to come back to me but the new SIM has cured it.
Now i'm afraid to change anything in case i screw it up!

[ashleyneiltaylor]

Originally Posted by Tailor

IT WORKS!!!!!!
The blackberry service has come up on the new sim and the WiFI connects too.
WiFi icon is black, status is green, can use everything with the Mobile network switched off, etc.
My old Sim, which is a 1yr old (Used to give me 3G in a XDA) is still active, on the same contract with blackberry working but if i put it back in my 8120 the WiFi can't connect, it tries but fails and then doesn't try anymore. Put the new SIM back in and up she comes, WooHoo.
Looking through all my previous tests nothing has changed in any service book or the HRT, certificates, security nothing.
There may be an additional service book i'm not sure, its BBFS2[KEYNEGO]
I don't remember seeing it before but then i was concentrating on the WiFI ones which haven't changed.
I'll stil try and find out what it was as O2 are still to come back to me but the new SIM has cured it.
Now i'm afraid to change anything in case i screw it up!

What is most interesting, is that I have just turned off GPRS/EDGE and sent a mail via BIS and it also working....... this didn't work 2 days ago ???????

[leatherface]

you're very lucky!!!!