[NoBox]

I just upgraded to the latest OS for my Torch. What a bad experience.

The upgrade changed me default settings on CICAL an CMIME. This is a long standing problem that should have been caught and corrected way before now.

There was something new in this upgrade I didn't catch. As soon as I accessed my contacts to send an email they automatically uploaded to ATT as a synch. I did not and do not want my contact list to be at ATT. I have personal notes on the contacts that are just that, personal. I have always relied on BB for security. Now that seems to be gone.

There is also a new setting "Default" but no definition of just what that is. All in all a very disappointing experience that makes me wonder what has been done to violate the core of my reason for a BB, security.

[rambo47]

The contacts issue is AT&T's fault. Carriers brand the OS version to include some of their own apps. Always have, always will.

You can easily change your default settings back via Options > Advanced Options > Default Services.

And you can downgrade back to an OS version with which you're more comfortable by the same process you used for the upgrade.

[NoBox]

Doesn't do much good now. The data is on their system. I will inform people their privacy and security has been violated but that doesn't do much good, except to maybe cost BB a couple customers.

Frankly, I don't buy the idea that it is ATT's fault. BB sells security. With current technology that is just about the only reason for a non-corporate person to own a BB machine. If one of the carriers is interefering with that BB owes it to the customer to inform them.

Plus, one would think that after all these years BB would finally stop changing user default settings without telling the user.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by NoBox

Doesn't do much good now. The data is on their system. I will inform people their privacy and security has been violated but that doesn't do much good, except to maybe cost BB a couple customers.

Frankly, I don't buy the idea that it is ATT's fault. BB sells security. With current technology that is just about the only reason for a non-corporate person to own a BB machine. If one of the carriers is interefering with that BB owes it to the customer to inform them.

Plus, one would think that after all these years BB would finally stop changing user default settings without telling the user.

You know, you can sit back and claim "Frankly, I don't buy the idea that it is ATT's fault" all you want, but the fact is - it IS their "fault." Its the way THEY configure the devices before THEY sell them to you. You say "BB owes it to the customer to inform them" and "one would think that after all these years BB would finally stop changing user default settings without telling the user" but BB doesn't deal directly with the customer, nor do they have any control over the default settings that AT&T chooses to use for the device. RIM sells BlackBerry devices to the carrier, the carrier configures them according to carrier defaults and then sells them to the end user. RIM has no direct communication path to the end-user. If you don't like the AT&T default settings, then switching from BlackBerry to something else is unlikely to make a difference, because the non-BlackBerry device you switch to is very likely to be configured to use the AT&T-provided cloud service exactly as the BlackBerry is using it.

Sorry, but your beef is REALLY with AT&T, not with RIM/BlackBerry.

Also, to be honest, your understanding of cloud services (storing address book contents on their server) vs. "security" is flawed. Just because your data is stored (backed up) on their servers does not mean it can't still be highly secure.

[aiharkness]

Agree, at least if this happened the way it is described, that it is AT&T and not RIM at fault. T-Mobile offers the same service, as I expect the other carriers do as well, but it is not enabled by default. The user must turn it on and is given fair notice of what it is.

The CICAL and CMIME issue is trivial. Irritating sometimes, but not a big deal in the larger scheme of things.

The automatic remote backup of contacts is a big deal, in my opinion. But not RIM's doing.

[jsconyers]

Agreed, this is with AT&T and just like Ira stated, other carriers have this as well. I know Verizon has the same thing. You can move away from BlackBerry to an Droid or iPhone and more likely than not, they will have their software on the next device you get.

[NoBox]

A couple point for the cheerleaders to consider:
>First of all, despite what may be claimed the "cloud" is not secure in the sense that information there is private, or will be available when needed or desired. If it is on someone else's equipment they have access at their leisure and availability when needed is not guaranteed. Claims may be made to the contrary. But, experience says they are just claims, not facts.
>Second, if it had been any phone but a BB I would not have expected privacy and would not have had the data on the Torch. Because BB touts the security aspects of their devices I was lulled into thinking that had not changed.
>To some of you changing defaults like calendar, email, time zone and others may not be a big deal. Guess you enjoy maintaining your phone as a hobby. To me, it is a useful tool, nothing more. I expect a modern smartphone to be as easy to use as my laptop. Because of the high handed policies involved it isn't.

[adperdue]

Next time, read your contract. It is spelled out in black and white.

As far as security is concerned, your AT&T address book is encrypted, and only your BlackBerry has the key. Myth busted.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[NoBox]

Originally Posted by adperdue

Next time, read your contract. It is spelled out in black and white.

As far as security is concerned, your AT&T address book is encrypted, and only your BlackBerry has the key. Myth busted.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

Ah faith, ain't it a wonderful thing. Rather than get into a lengthy discussion about security and its' various facets I suggest that you do some research on security and encryption. Suffice it to say encryption is not a magic wand. Plus, it only takes a little thought to realize that data "in the cloud" is data out of the individual's control. Whoever has physical possession of the data has whatever access to it they wish.

As for the contract; well I guess it is covered under that sentence that in essence reads that ATT can do whatever they want whenever they want. Same with other carriers and companies for that matter. Since BB touted their security they seemed to draw a line between what is on the phone and the communications over the carrier's equipment. In this case the carrier stepped over that line into what was in the phone and never intended to be sent over the carrier's network.

[jsconyers]

So to clarify. You're concerned about security, admit the other phones are not as secure as a BlackBerry, but are still interested in going to another phone?

[aiharkness]

NoBox, what do you want from readers of your thread?

You seem to think you are the only serious user here. I assure you I don't use a BlackBerry just for the fun of it. I doubt the BlackBerry is just a hobby for the others who have responded to you.

It would seem you suffer from your own baseless assumptions and then blame someone else for not conforming to your wrong understanding of things. I suspect you probably enabled the remote backup and didn't realize what you were doing at the time. At any rate, RIM isn't the problem, nor the BlackBerry.

As far as everything else, there are no secrets. The way the default CICAL and CMIME are set automatically by the order in which service books are received on the handset is documented at blackberry.com. It is a trivial matter to change the settings.

Time zone? Where did that come from?

I will grant you the BlackBerry requires some competence to use effectively. If it isn't what you need, find what works for you.

[aiharkness]

deleted - double posting

[NoBox]

Originally Posted by jsconyers

So to clarify. You're concerned about security, admit the other phones are not as secure as a BlackBerry, but are still interested in going to another phone?

Nope, that is Not what I said.

What I said was that Blackberry's main draw was its' advertised security. I was surprised to find it was no longer true. If its' main draw is no longer there it is time to look at other pieces of equipment.

[NoBox]

Originally Posted by aiharkness

NoBox, what do you want from readers of your thread?

You seem to think you are the only serious user here. I assure you I don't use a BlackBerry just for the fun of it. I doubt the BlackBerry is just a hobby for the others who have responded to you.

It would seem you suffer from your own baseless assumptions and then blame someone else for not conforming to your wrong understanding of things. I suspect you probably enabled the remote backup and didn't realize what you were doing at the time. At any rate, RIM isn't the problem, nor the BlackBerry.

As far as everything else, there are no secrets. The way the default CICAL and CMIME are set automatically by the order in which service books are received on the handset is documented at blackberry.com. It is a trivial matter to change the settings.

Time zone? Where did that come from?

I will grant you the BlackBerry requires some competence to use effectively. If it isn't what you need, find what works for you.

Nope, didn't enable remote backup,nor did I enable wireless synch.
This last update changed the default time zone. Not sure why.
Guess you and I have different definitions of "trivial". Sort of depends on whether you realize what is going on and make the change before entering data and synching it to a laptop.

Despite the slam in your last sentence I'm glad you gave permission to seek what works best for me. I really didn't need it but I'm glad you gave it.

I posted this thread because I suspect others are like I was, unaware Blackberry had changed its' policies.

[rambo47]

Originally Posted by NoBox

I posted this thread because I suspect others are like I was, unaware Blackberry had changed its' policies.

*Sigh.* This is not a BlackBerry issue. It's an AT&T issue. If AT&T enables a backup app and grants it trusted application status from the start, there's not much RIM can do about it.

[aiharkness]

Yeah, that hasn't sunk in.

"BlackBerry" hasn't changed anything, at least not with regard to the issues being discussed in this thread. Nor has RIM. OP may have a valid complaint with the carrier, though I can't help but believe the carrier's app is virtually the same as my carrier's app, as well as the others. But regardless, it is the carrier, not RIM. (Unless we are talking about Protect, which even still requires user to configure after downloading and installing.)

Perceptions vary. This won't be the first time someone sees a huge shortcoming and I see a minor irritation, and vice versa (except for the possible default "on" automatic remote contacts backup, which I do think is a big deal if true).

[jsconyers]

We all might as well be talking to a wall. There is no way to change the OP's mind that this isn't a RIM issue, but an AT&T issue. AT&T could tell him that it's their issue and he would still blame RIM. For that reason, I am done with this thread.

[aiharkness]

Not to beat a dead horse, but it is an important point that the carrier's sell and support the device, and to different degrees control the function and features of the device. Just search the forums for the threads on Verizon disabling GPS, AT&T not supporting Yahoo messenger and hiding BlackBerry Maps, not to mention all the "spam" download links that are pushed to the devices. There are probably many other examples.

There are things RIM deserves blame for, but one needs to understand who is responsible for what.

And my comment above that some competence is required to use the BlackBerry effectively was not a slam. It is a fact. To some degree it is also true for other devices. Sure, a lot of people can use any of the devices and not really care about the details, even a BlackBerry, and they will be happy until they have a problem. Then it doesn't matter, no matter the device, the details will matter. The BlackBerry or any smartphone can be a very useful tool for those who take advantage of its features; but as is usually the case, using a tool without the necessary knowledge and know how can hurt you.

[rambo47]

The iPhone is perfect for folks with little or no knowledge of phones. My wife uses one and it's a match made in heaven.

[NoBox]

Been doing productive things for the past few days. So, not able to post in a frivolous activity like this. Anyway: Sure ATT does control a lot of what happens on the phone, any phone. After all they have direct access to the phone and thus control a lot of what goes on. But, the BB instruction, help, and advertising all tout the security of internal information in their devices. In fact, I was looking at the help screen for contacts and it clearly says that you can only synchronize the handheld with a computer and by using the desktop software.

In past devices I have owned that has been the case. If somehow the environment has changed RIM owes their customers notice of the change. Since they didn't I have no choice but to figure anything that is in the device is, in fact, public knowledge. Sure, ATT claims information in their possession is secure. Given data breaches in the past only the most naive would rely on that assertion. Plus, there is no reason I should share private information with anyone I don't choose.

While knocking a person't competence may satisfy egos it actually reflects poorly on posters attitude and knowledge.