[greeneggsandham]

Originally Posted by rsnadel

1. You are correct. I misread his original post. Nowhere does he say whether the phone is new or used.

2. "The BlackBerry Handheld, the BlackBerry Cradle, and any other RIM hardware accessories, excluding external batteries and SIM cards, which are
provided to YOU concurrently and in conjunction with the BlackBerry Handheld specifically for use with YOUR particular model of BlackBerry Handheld (which together comprise the BlackBerry Hardware), will be free from defects in workmanship and materials for a period that is the shorter of (i) one (1) year from the date that the new BlackBerry Handheld was first purchased by YOU as an original end-user (“YOU”) and (ii) the period ending upon YOUR breach of the BlackBerry End-User/Software License Agreement (the “License Agreement”) entered into between YOU and Research In Motion
Limited and/OR its affiliated group of companies’ (“RIM”) in connection with the BlackBerry Solution (the “Warranty Period”). This Limited Warranty is
not transferable."

Looks to me that the warranty is non-transferable, and only valid for the person making the original purchase from an authorized dealer.

Not to quibble but one has to be very careful with the little details on this sort of thing:

1) original end-user not necessarily = original purchaser

2) The rest that I highlighted I took to mean software.

My interpretation, which could be incorrect, the warranty makes no specific mention that you must purchase from authorized dealer, but that you do need to be original end user.

I assumed the OP was not referencing a refurbished device otherwise they would have said so in the first place.

My motives here are to clarify, not point blame, simply because as somebody considering purchase of multiple devices this is of relevance to me. No, I don't plan on doing business with TD, looking for deals on refurbished units, etc.

[rsnadel]

1) original end-user not necessarily = original purchaser

I believe this (original end-user) is to differentiate from the reseller that buys the device from RIM and then turns around and sells it to the end-user. Earlier in that same sentence is the phrase first purchased by YOU, which to me means the original purchaser.

[CanuckBB]

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

Not to quibble but one has to be very careful with the little details on this sort of thing:

1) original end-user not necessarily = original purchaser

2) The rest that I highlighted I took to mean software.

My interpretation, which could be incorrect, the warranty makes no specific mention that you must purchase from authorized dealer, but that you do need to be original end user.

I assumed the OP was not referencing a refurbished device otherwise they would have said so in the first place.

My motives here are to clarify, not point blame, simply because as somebody considering purchase of multiple devices this is of relevance to me. No, I don't plan on doing business with TD, looking for deals on refurbished units, etc.

I highly doubt it's a new device. RIM only supplies new devices to carriers. On TD's website, you can clearly see it's an AT&T branded device. The OP may not know it's a refurb. The fact the TD does the warranty work, and it's a 3 month warranty points to a refurb device. My guess would be that TD has a deal with AT&T to move refurbed devices. The phone is also unlocked. If you can explain how TD can get their hands on brand new AT&T unlocked phones, I'll change my opinion.

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by JMF1234

I purchased an unlocked phone from Tigerdirect.com

That's your problem there.

Always use ResellerRatings.com and always refer only to the lifetime rating (TD's 6 month rating appears to be inflated).

If you're unhappy with something that you bought from TigerDirect then I highly recommend that you not deal with vendors that have a lifetime rating of less than 9 in the future.

Originally Posted by JMF1234

Go to Tigerdirect.com, search for RIM. You will find 3 RIM phones and you will also find a tech support phone number... from RIM!

Support calls for RIM devices are always handled via the carriers. If TigerDirect gave you RIM's number then, again, your issue is with TigerDirect. They should be providing support and escalating matters to RIM on an as-needed basis but I suspect that they have no support agreement with RIM in place and are instead passing the buck.

[lhuff]

I still wonder how you get an unlocked iDEN device to work on a GSM network.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by lhuff

I still wonder how you get an unlocked iDEN device to work on a GSM network.

Yep, this whole OP raises alarm flags. The guy (newbie who hasn't been back to repost - driveby?) bought a phone from an unauthorized source. Its an iDEN phone, but he "claims" to have been using it for "months" before it broke, and can't get AT&T to repair/replace it. Of course, we all know that his claim of having used the 7100i for months on AT&T is totally and completely bogus.

In addition, at the moment there's only one BlackBerry listed on TigerDirect - the 8300 Curve - and here's what TigerDirect says about a warranty:

This product has a limited warranty of:
3 months for parts and 3 months for labor.

Support URL: TigerDirect.com Best Deals - Computer Parts, PC Components, Computers & Electronics

Support Phone Number: 1-800-800-8300

1 Year Replacement after Mfg. Warranty Ends $63.99
2 Year Replacement after Mfg. Warranty Ends $105.99

I'm betting that's EXACTLY what his 7100i warranty said - this is assuming of course, that he bought a 7100i in the first place. Because he's either mistaken about owning a 7100i or mistaken about being on AT&T, one or the other. Therefore, his credibility about NOT being totally mistaken about the warranty is pretty darn low at the moment also!

[greeneggsandham]

Well, well... I'm glad we got that all cleared up.... Or have we??

I was interested in clarifying the original purchase vs original end-user question because of scenario where I may make the original purchase but then give the device to someone else who would then become the original end-user. In such case I would want the end-user to be able to deal with any warranty issues that may arise w/o having to involve me. It's a subtle distinction and not something I am going to stress over but as long as we were on the topic.

Won't presume anything about motives of OP, maybe just venting, perhaps innocent "victim" of TD, etc. No reason to assume foul motives. Just tried to be helpful by posting the RIM warranty link because whatever else any of us may think, the buck stops there (unless found to be in violation of local laws). If it doesn't apply to OP then it doesn't apply, if it does then RIM should honor it. I've had issues in the past with a carrier refusing to honor a valid warranty and had to go upstream to manufacturer. Ultimately the buck stops at the manufacturer. In such cases I expect RIM would do the right thing.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

Well, well... I'm glad we got that all cleared up.... Or have we??

Well, here's my thoughts about that warranty you provided the link to. I'm not a lawyer, any more than you are, but just trying to look at this from a common sense point of view, as well as speculating on the legalities of it.

I think you're relying too heavily on a potentially wrong definition of the words "original end-user" and its appropriate to step back for a moment and think carefully about just who or what an "end-user" is. Lets take me for a moment - if I walk into an AT&T store, and buy a new BlackBerry, without any intent of ever activating it on my AT&T account, and then I turn around and sell it on eBay, would you argue that the RIM warranty should be valid and enforceable by the person who purchases it from me on eBay? If not, why not? What makes me any different from TigerDirect at that point?

That RIM warranty talks about "RIM", "RIM Solution Providers" (who are authorized distributors/resellers) and "end-users." There being no business relationship between RIM and TigerDirect (or me as an individual selling on eBay) there's no way that TigerDirect or I can be considered "RIM Solution Providers" and we certainly are not "RIM" therefore I think legally TigerDirect in this case IS an "end-user" for warranty purposes, just as I would be an "end-user" for warranty purposes, whether or not I had ever activated service on the phone or not. The "original end-user" is the first entity who purchases the phone and who is NOT either RIM or a RIM Solution Provider.

If you continue to argue your point, then I'll assume you'd also argue that my eBay buyer could expect to also be able to enforce the warranty terms from RIM? Personally, I don't think so! By the way, I don't think TigerDirect thinks so either - or they wouldn't prominently advertise a 90 day warranty that they themselves are responsible for on a new 8300 at the moment, if they thought a buyer could avail themselves of a 1 year warranty from RIM instead and relieve TigerDirect of all responsibility.

[greeneggsandham]

I'm not arguing. I'm discussing

But I think your interpretation is correct. Seems I do need glasses. Or more likely a few smart pills. Perhaps a bit less multi-tasking while skimming warranties....

I'm not a fan of ebay, and I see why the actions of less than scrupulous resellers may force manufacturers to tighten up on their warranty terms, but as long as device is new-in-box I personally would hope that it should be covered by warranty regardless of where it was purchased. Yes, I understand how this could be problematic. It's a sticky wicket because as manufacturer I want to stand behind my products to the fullest extent possible, and enjoy having a fine reputation for doing so. But on the other I don't want this to be abused by miscreants. Seems like small minority are always ruining things for the rest of us...

[CanuckBB]

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

I'm not arguing. I'm discussing

But I think your interpretation is correct. Seems I do need glasses. Or more likely a few smart pills. Perhaps a bit less multi-tasking while skimming warranties....

Absolutely you need glasses. At this point we all need those glasses. Preferably full of single malt....

I'm not a fan of ebay, and I see why the actions of less than scrupulous resellers may force manufacturers to tighten up on their warranty terms, but as long as device is new-in-box I personally would hope that it should be covered by warranty regardless of where it was purchased. Yes, I understand how this could be problematic. It's a sticky wicket because as manufacturer I want to stand behind my products to the fullest extent possible, and enjoy having a fine reputation for doing so. But on the other I don't want this to be abused by miscreants. Seems like small minority are always ruining things for the rest of us...

The issue here is that while RIM provides the device with a 1 year warranty, RIM does not deal with end users. All calls are handled by the carrier.

Even though I have a tech support contract with RIM, all my handset hardware issues go through Rogers. Replacement come from Rogers. They deal with RIM.

[DallasFlier]

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

I'm not arguing. I'm discussing

Just to clarify, my use of the term "argue" wasn't meant in any way to be negative or disparaging. Just doesn't flow well to say "would you discuss that..." Thanks for calmly listening to and acknowledging arguments that I tried to present logically. (see, I used "argue" with respect to myself too.)

Originally Posted by greeneggsandham

as long as device is new-in-box I personally would hope that it should be covered by warranty regardless of where it was purchased...

I agree - as a matter of customer satisfaction, vs. a matter of warranty legalities. The rub is though, how can RIM possibly determine if the device is "new-in-box" or not? In this case, the OP admits its not, its had several months of use already. But RIM has lost total track of that phone from the point at which one of their authorized "RIM Solution Providers" (carriers) sold it - to someone. Was it new when the OP bought it? Who knows - I assume it was "in box" but the only data RIM can look to is the date at which its reported sold by their authorized channel. Whether its been taken out of the box, used, modified, dropped in a swimming pool and dried with a hair dryer till it seems to be working right - who knows.

As a matter of law, I think they're completely in the clear. As a matter of business and customer satisfaction, it comes down to trying to balance customer sat against not wanting to encourage or support the unauthorized, grey market. Tough call...

[rsnadel]

And there's yet another constituent in this discussion that needs to be taken into consideration: the RIM Solution Provider...aka "authorized reseller." Those people agree to be your representative to RIM...to sell you a warranteed item, to service it, to handle defective merchandise, to handle merchandise that's been dropped in the toilet and then returned with a "I don't know why it stopped working" complaint, and on and on. In exchange for doing that, RIM agrees to give them certain protections...certain exclusivities. If you can buy around them for less money (i.e. off EBay, or grey market), and then bring them your problems and warranty claims when the person you bought it from says it's not covered, you'll see fewer authorized resellers very quickly. Why agree to live by the rules if everyone around you ignores them?

[wabbit]

Wirelessly posted (8830: BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Just to clarify something. End user or consumer is gonna be the very first person to activate the phone on the respective network:

Ex I go out and buy just the phone for my girlfriend wrap it up and give it to her on her birthday, if it is a brand new phone she is the first user of that phone. And w/e warr is said by a mfg 1 year what ever would have to apply.