[brace! brace!]

Originally Posted by mapin

As a mac user, the only downside is using Win Mobile 5. The Missing Sync software has an alpha version for syncing to the mac, so that's almost there. The Win Mob 5 OS is more cumbersome then the BB of course, but you get to do so much more.

To the tool who said i should have done my research and saved him a thread. Get a life, as if I forced you into the thread and made you waste your time reading it. I did a fair amount of research, but things become more clear once you actually use the device and have it in hand. It became clear the BB wasn't for me. Again, I'm just warning newbies to take a hard look at what they want, and I hope my experiences can help.

I'll post again in a few weeks after I've used the MDA some more.

You complained that the PocketMac syncing wasn't a solution and now you've gone running to ALPHA software??? Not sure I understand.

Also, exactly why are you trying to "warn newbies"? Stating that indicates that all you want to do is to convince people that the BB is not for them (like you). If you are trying to "inform people before they purchase" then perhaps you should be posting in another forum like macandmobile.com. This is a BlackBerry forum, not an area for promoting the WM devices.

[cblackberrynyc]

or cheerleading for BB's??? Some might like windoz devices, some swear by the Treo's. Other devices brought up here are just being used as a reference to make certain points. Saying one is the best is opinion only. But to BS others into thinking RIM's mac support is acceptable is not right either. It also doesn't help make it clear that if RIM wants to work with the Mac, they have alot of work to do.

I say let him or her post about REAL LIFE, the BB and how it works (or doesn't work) with the Mac. Bet most Mac users feel the same way about RIM's half assed mac support.

Originally Posted by brace! brace!

Sad to hear the BlackBerry hasn't worked out for you. I'm onto my third now (an 8700g which I got about 3 weeks ago) and I couldn't be happier, even though I am a Mac user of many years now.

I've had Palm's in the past but the PDA on the BB kills anything that I've used in the past. I've tried my friends' Treos, Windows Mobiles etc but I find they still don't cut it against the BB. I agree with you the phone features have been a bit lacking over the years but RIM is almost there now. Things like Voice Dialling are something which I've never used in a phone so for me I don't notice these features missing.

In defence of the BlackBerry:

- PDF, Word and Excel viewing is available free of charge through eFile. No "crazy subscription service" is needed.

- Yes Bluetooth is limited to secure services but as a Mac user you should appreciate the difference between having a device which is secure by default (like Mac OS X) versus devices which are open to exploitation (eg Windows).

- eOffice does not require Windows. Remember it's a wireless device.

- There's heaps of 3rd party software to choose from. The only software which I want which isn't available is a Chinese <-> English dictionary. I've been using a free web based one but I've decided to port this myself so I can access it when I am flying so eventually I'll get around this too.

The BB isn't just a smartphone replacement - it's the ORIGINAL SMARTPHONE; and still the best. Feature for feature it still beats the competition in ease of use, stability, email (of course!!), The phone features are not limited by a long shot. Apart from Voice Dialling, I can't really think of any missing useful features (not that I would use it anyway). PDA support is stronger than ever. If you think this is limited, I'll send you my old Palm Pilot and then you'll know what a limited PIM is!!

So, yes, you should consider carefully before choosing your next device. It's important to remember how important battery life is and just how important the interface is with ease of use for beginners and the use of key shortcuts so advanced users can get things done quicker than ever (without one of those stupid touch screens).

Just my 20c worth. Good luck with your new device. Hope it suits you better.

cheers
brace! brace!

[brace! brace!]

Originally Posted by cblackberrynyc

I say let him or her post about REAL LIFE, the BB and how it works (or doesn't work) with the Mac. Bet most Mac users feel the same way about RIM's half assed mac support.

cblackberrynyc,

actually that's a good idea. Posting a REAL LIFE experience. Our IT manager has a trial of a couple of WinMobile phones and the solution via our carrier at the moment and there is at least one spare device available. Tomorrow I'll obtain this device and post my own points on REAL LIFE experience with these.

Depending on how well my company's IT manager has employed the Direct Push solution on Exchange and our carrier's support for it at the moment, it could just well lead to more cheerleading for the BB. But then again, the results could well be surprising.

I'll post some test results tomorrow.

[roofus]

Originally Posted by mapin

Original poster back, just a quick update.... i'm enjoying my MDA very much so far for past 5 days. It's a bit thicker and heavier then the 8700, but it feels more solid. I tend not to drop my stuff, so hopefully its durability won't be tested.

As a mac user, the only downside is using Win Mobile 5. The Missing Sync software has an alpha version for syncing to the mac, so that's almost there. The Win Mob 5 OS is more cumbersome then the BB of course, but you get to do so much more.

To the tool who said i should have done my research and saved him a thread. Get a life, as if I forced you into the thread and made you waste your time reading it. I did a fair amount of research, but things become more clear once you actually use the device and have it in hand. It became clear the BB wasn't for me. Again, I'm just warning newbies to take a hard look at what they want, and I hope my experiences can help.

I'll post again in a few weeks after I've used the MDA some more.

thx
Mark

I can hardly wait . . . .

[cblackberrynyc]

Brace,

For email the BB is going to be hard too beat, even with BB connect, or micro$oft's app. However the BB email solution comes with a $44 to $49 dollar monthly premium, which the other solutions dont. The BB does email probably the best, but also we need to factor in device sync with pc, mac, and linux? Also factor in all the functions and app's the other devices do. The BB has fallen behind a bit, security is great BUT security shouldn't be a block for RIM to not innovate and keep up with app's and functions of other devices.

RIM's problem these days is mac support is not up to the quality of RIM. IAA pocketmac for BB is not a quality program, anything which interfaces the BB really needs to be made and supported in house from RIM. Hacks dont count in business, and the last wait for a working app from IAA so mac users could sync a smartphone device like the BB to the computer took what 4 months? unacceptable, and the current version is still unacceptable.

Originally Posted by brace! brace!

cblackberrynyc,

actually that's a good idea. Posting a REAL LIFE experience. Our IT manager has a trial of a couple of WinMobile phones and the solution via our carrier at the moment and there is at least one spare device available. Tomorrow I'll obtain this device and post my own points on REAL LIFE experience with these.

Depending on how well my company's IT manager has employed the Direct Push solution on Exchange and our carrier's support for it at the moment, it could just well lead to more cheerleading for the BB. But then again, the results could well be surprising.

I'll post some test results tomorrow.

[BuckyT]

As a longtime Mac user I have to say "What exactly did you expect?"

BB says very clearly everywhere that they don't support Macs. I'm with the "tool" above who doesn't understand what you wanted it to do when RIM doesn't do squat for Mac users - we do it ourselves with the grace of Pocketmac. It's standard procedure that we just deal with the things it can't do hoping that, someday, RIM will see it's way to throw us a bone. Or PocketMac will decide to release a loader.

Good luck with your new device but if you expect the world to work with your Mac like it's a PC then you are in for disappointments at most every turn.

[cblackberrynyc]

uh??? "BB says very clearly everywhere that they don't support Macs." uh??

January 10, 2005
For The First Time, Information Appliance Associates Showcases BlackBerry-to-Macintosh Connectivity Solution at MacWorld Expo
http://www.rim.net/news/partner/2005..._2005-02.shtml

January 12, 2006
BlackBerry to Offer Mac Support
http://www.rim.net/news/press/2006/p..._2006-02.shtml

"we do it ourselves with the grace of Pocketmac. It's standard procedure that we just deal with the things it can't do hoping that, someday, RIM will see it's way to throw us a bone."

IAA Pocketmac for BB is NOT gracefull at all, and "just dealing with and hoping" is not good enough for RIM and it sure shouldn't be good enough for business customers who are mac users. IAA Pocketmac for BB is NOT a app that can be relied on. RIM needs to either do the right thing or completely drop the mac platform. Half-assed support, and hoping for a "bone" from RIM? The BB is a business device right? We pay RIM for the device, and a fee for monthly service. I dont want a Bone... I want a BB smartphone to work as good as it does for a pc user. RIM not doing a in house app, and supporting mac and linux is unacceptable. The world DOES work with the Mac, the problem is RIM farmed out the app for mac users, and neither do much if anything to support it.

[BuckyT]

Originally Posted by cblackberrynyc

uh??? "BB says very clearly everywhere that they don't support Macs." uh??

January 10, 2005
For The First Time, Information Appliance Associates Showcases BlackBerry-to-Macintosh Connectivity Solution at MacWorld Expo

January 12, 2006
BlackBerry to Offer Mac Support

"we do it ourselves with the grace of Pocketmac. It's standard procedure that we just deal with the things it can't do hoping that, someday, RIM will see it's way to throw us a bone."

IAA Pocketmac for BB is NOT gracefull at all, and "just dealing with and hoping" is not good enough for RIM and it sure shouldn't be good enough for business customers who are mac users. IAA Pocketmac for BB is NOT a app that can be relied on. RIM needs to either do the right thing or completely drop the mac platform. Half-assed support, and hoping for a "bone" from RIM? The BB is a business device right? We pay RIM for the device, and a fee for monthly service. I dont want a Bone... I want a BB smartphone to work as good as it does for a pc user. RIM not doing a in house app, and supporting mac and linux is unacceptable. The world DOES work with the Mac, the problem is RIM farmed out the app for mac users, and neither do much if anything to support it.

That's all great but IAA isn't RIM. PocketMac is a standalone program from a third party vendor.

Here's what Rim says your Blackberry works with, No mention of Apple, Mac or anything other than Windows -

BlackBerry Desktop Software v4.1 Service Pack 1 System Requirements
Internet/email enabled computer with an Intel™ 486 or higher processor
One available USB or serial port
Windows® Operating System Requirements:
USB: Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP
Serial: Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP or Windows NT® 4.0 Service Pack 6 or later
Optional Bluetooth® connection on computer with Windows XP
Service Pack 2
See knowledge base article KB-04132 for a complete list of Bluetooth transceivers that are supported in Windows XP Service Pack 2.
Organizer Support:
Microsoft Outlook 97, Outlook 98, Outlook 2000, Outlook 2002 Outlook XP or Outlook 2003
Lotus Notes 5.0.6 or later, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0
ACT!® 4.0.2, 2000, 5.0, or 6.0
Lotus Organizer 5.0, or 6.0
Microsoft Outlook Express 5.0, or 6.0
Novell GroupWise 6.0, or 6.5
Netscape® (contacts only)
ASCII Importer/Exporter
NEW! Data Migration wizard that imports Contacts, Calendar entries, tasks, and memos from Palm®, Treo™ or Windows Mobile™-based devices. See knowledge base article KB-043466 for information on the data mapping that is performed by the data migration wizard.

For Enterprise Integration with BlackBerry Enterprise Server Only (does not apply to BlackBerry Internet Service):
Microsoft® Outlook® 98/2000/2003/XP (Corporate or Workgroup Installation), IBM® Lotus Notes® 4.6, 5.0, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0 (for enterprise email integration) or Novell® GroupWise® version 6.5 Service Pack 4
Email account on a Microsoft Exchange Server version 5.5/2000/2003, IBM Lotus® Domino® Server version 4.6, 5.0, 6.5, 7.0 (for enterprise email integration) or Novell GroupWise Server version 6.5 Service Pack 1 or later

I want a flying car too, but I don't think they make that yet either.

[brace! brace!]

OK. Got my hands on a Win Mobile 5 device which was carrier branded but was definitely an O2 Xda Atom. First chance to grab a hold and use a WM device properly rather than just play with one briefly.

First of all, email is not a good comparison. The DirectPush thing didn't work at all and the alias email address that was set up for me would just result in an SMS being sent to my phone rather than the email being delivered. I'll suspend disbelief and assume this will work here eventually (or blame my IT manager which is more plausable...).

The general feature list is on paper quite impressive: WiFi, Bluetooth, IrDa (gosh people still use this), multimedia playback, and of course a camera.

WiFi is interesting, it's 802.11b which you can connect to a network but, given the BB's support for wireless internet, I was lost on the reason for including this. The camera was typically hopeless (as all mobile phone cameras are). However the included software was much more impressive.

One of the biggest BB complaints is the lack of office type software not included out of the box and yes this device does include it. Of course we're back in Palm days of using a stylus and on screen keyboards for input so a BB user won't feel particularly at home. Also, generally speaking, the user interface was definitely sluggish compared to a modern BB.

While I could not test the all important push email, there is definitely the underlyings of a good device here and I can understand why someone would buy one. There is more feature rich software included out of the box but using the software is much harder than the BB I felt. For me I won't switch any time soon, mostly due to a lack of shortcuts to get things done (once again, like the good old Palm days).

The phone side of things was acceptable, no better or worse than the BB (but I don't rate the BB highly as a cell phone and still carry a separate cell phone for voice calls).

One final killer for our IT manager for this was that the cost for our company to adopt the WM devices is higher than that of the BB (especially since we're dumping Exchange). The carrier's quoted costs are higher so we're returning these trial devices and software later this week.

So, in short, this device is very feature rich but has a higher listed price than the 8700 (additional $300). Mac support is the same as PocketMac which is from another company which has Alpha version software only and doesn't do full syncing yet. No genuine BES type of solution.

I think that any BB user would probably pick one of these up and think great features but immediately notice the lack of user friendlyness for the first time user or the additional features for the power user. But for the media software, FM radio, office software working out of the box, there is definite appeal to this device and definite reasons for a company to pick one up. Unresponsive user interface and lower quality displays immediately leap out at you.

So, an interesting 2 days using this device but leaves me overall unwilling to keep using it any longer. However, it's clealy obvious that these devices are only going to get better in the very near future so RIM have a lot of work to do over the next 12 months otherwise they will get pushed to one side like Palm has.

If anyone has questions, just ask and I'll answer as best I can.

Thanks

[brace! brace!]

Just a follow up on this one. We went to a demonstration by our carrier of the MS push email system actually working. As a comparison, I sent myself an email from my dot mac email (using the web interface on my laptop) to my BB at the same time they sent an email to the demo phone. The email arrived (after being forwarded by Apple to my BB email address) to my BB in around 15 seconds. Theirs took 3 minutes.

When I pointed this out, they said: "Well, you have to understand this is not a BlackBerry". That's a direct quote!

Looks like MS certainly don't have their system working right yet.

My company has rejected the MS system. The devices are more expensive and the service charges by the carrier are also more expensive than the BB systems we currently use.