[test54]

"At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.
Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.
Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq"

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape' - Telegraph

Thoughts?

[kathrynhr]

Maj Gen Taguba, who retired in January 2007, said he supported the Presidentxxx8217;s decision, adding: xxx8220;These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.

xxx8220;I am not sure what purpose their release would serve other than a legal one and the consequence would be to imperil our troops, the only protectors of our foreign policy, when we most need them, and British troops who are trying to build security in Afghanistan.

xxx8220;The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it.xxx8221;

It would serve the purpose of creating dialogue about the fact that the definitions of right and wrong do not conveniently change during wartime. It would allow prosecutions of wrongdoers. And although it would sting in the short term, it would allow the United States to regain moral authority in the long run.

The only reason not to release any photo of wrongdoing is if doing so would also reveal some other form of intelligence that would probably compromise other troops who are not depicted (i.e. allow someone to discern from a photo the location of a secret facility or the identity of an undercover operative).

If we've done something to deserve a bad rap as a nation, I say let's take our licks and move past it. Release the photos. I don't care if it happens to embarrass General Taguba (or the rest of us, as it ought).

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

Wtf? These actions are gross! Prisoners or not!

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

This needs to come out! Who the hell thought it would be a good idea to take pics anyway?

[mriff]

These actions were criminal and should be treated as such. Prosecute those responsible as far up the line as necessary. To the fullest extent of the law. How could anyone possibly think that these actions were justified in any way.

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

I agree mriff! These acts are in no way justifiable!

[djm2]

I too agree. Unfortunately, this is what happens when "leaders" allow expediency to trump values.

[kathrynhr]

And what they tell us, as always, is that if we had all the same information they have, we'd make the same decisions they're making. How often has that ever been the case when we've seen the facts in retrospect?

I believe in standing back and allowing a leader to do the job that he or she was elected to do... but if the photos suggest that a crime was committed, as these clearly do, then a proper investigation is needed.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by djm2

I too agree. Unfortunately, this is what happens when "leaders" allow expediency to trump values.

I don't know if I would attribute their actions to expediency, but I would hate to think worse.

[test54]

what if these acts were in some way done as an escalation of the brutal treatment these prisoners were subjected to by the interrogators? People can justify some pretty horrible things in their minds, to the rapists perhaps they thought this was part of breaking the prisoners so they would cooperate. Torture can lead to a very slippery slope.

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

Torture is one thing blatant rape, sexual assault is another I don't care if the guards or interrogators feel justified they commited crimes and should be punished accordingly

[test54]

I agree, they should be punished and the situation should be investigated. My point was just that sometimes allowing unstable people to torture & humiliate people can blur the lines of right & wrong. Not necessarily about the rapes but there are other horrible things that went on.

The article is talking about two separate groups of photos. The ones of Abu Ghraib are coming out? It says their is a civil case in court now, but not sure if they will release the photos.
The article makes the statement that these photos might give reason to why Obama was convinced by the Military & Gates to not release the torture photos.

I think both groups at this point should be released and the US should be ready to take yet another round of bad press.

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by test54

I think both groups at this point should be released and the US should be ready to take yet another round of bad press.

Exactly.

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (overwhelmingly stressed)

Bad press happens!



We should hold ourselves to the moral standard rather than play cover-up



It may insight anger initially but I think if they see we are holding those responsible accountable to the laws of our nation and rules of war. The anger will subside

[wabbit]

so its alright to behead, murder, kill innocent us citizens abroad, yet its bad for the same country to do it back to know terrorist not civilians.

just wow, i'm shocked actually.

[test54]

yeah, it will bring out anger but the US of all countries should be able to spin the story into "We are changing our ways".

[mriff]

Originally Posted by wabbit

so its alright to behead, murder, kill innocent us citizens abroad, yet its bad for the same country to do it back to know terrorist not civilians.

just wow, i'm shocked actually.

Who said it's alright that US citizens are killed? I don't see that anyone said that.

So do you really think that we should rape, behead, murder and kill prisoners as we take them under our control?

And it's quite clear that not all prisoners were guilty of what they were arrested for. There were clearly innocent civilians caught up in the dragnet. You think they should suffer through rape, torture and murder?

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by mriff

So do you really think that we should rape, behead, murder and kill prisoners as we take them under our control?

We can kill them in that universe. We just can't behead or murder them. (TIC)

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by mriff

Who said it's alright that US citizens are killed? I don't see that anyone said that.

So do you really think that we should rape, behead, murder and kill prisoners as we take them under our control?

And it's quite clear that not all prisoners were guilty of what they were arrested for. There were clearly innocent civilians caught up in the dragnet. You think they should suffer through rape, torture and murder?

and you believe everything that's said on the news is unbiased?

clear facts are its war, its not a boxing match with a referee, it by an means necessary. you bring a bat, i bring a gun, you bring a gun i bring a missile.


as some religions even have "an eye for an eye" is it right/wrong.

bottom line in any way you try to justify war it just can not be. its going to be pain/blood and death innocent or not, some will be a casualty of war.

[test54]

Originally Posted by wabbit

so its alright to behead, murder, kill innocent us citizens abroad, yet its bad for the same country to do it back to know terrorist not civilians.

just wow, i'm shocked actually.

as mriff said, no one has said anything about justifying beheading. not really sure where you get that from. The people were not all guilty. Even if they were guilty, no one should be raped. That turns those US soldiers into actual criminals & terrorists in my opinion.

and for someone who preaches about not trusting the media & government, you give very little thought to these people being innocent.