[TXLady]

Originally Posted by chitowner

but as soon as Android launches GSM capability, I will get one.

AT&T Motorola Backflip
Motorola Backflip (TM) Cell Phone - Wireless from AT&T

Tmobile G1, Motorola Cliq, Motorola Cliq XT, Samsung Behold II, TMobile My Touch
TMobile Android phones

It is quite obvious from most of your posts in this string that you don't do much research, just throw statements around.

[aiharkness]

Originally Posted by chitowner

You obviously have more experience with BB's than I, at least from the # of posts ascribed to you. But I find it insulting when folks in the BB forums say things like "if you don't like it then get something else."

You are not alone in this Conyers. I have seen and encountered it in many instances elsewhere on BB-forums and it is contrary to the expected spirit of an online community. I do not understand why this 'buzz off' attitude is so common on BB-forums.

I do like my Storm2 and, as far as I can tell, it is the best device overall for my preferences, but as soon as Android launches GSM capability, I will get one. The ONLY thing that irks me about RIM is their stonewall attitude towards BB owners. Note I say OWNERS, not "users", which is quite a different category. You, Conyers, seem party to that RIM attitude.

With respect to the comment about a buzz off attitude by some, here's the issue:

I have seen calm, objective exchanges about the pros and cons of the way RIM does or does not do something, or about device design and function choices RIM has made, etc. And devoted blackberry users can indeed be critical. But the irritation for a lot of us longtime forum members happens in rants where the gripes are obviously about something that is just the way it is by design, and most users either take it for granted or in fact chose the device because of that characteristic. And when the complainer measure the blackberry against some other product which is intended for users with a different focus and need, then it's only natural to ask the individual why the heck they chose the blackberry if it doesn't suit their needs, or why if XYZ device is so much better for them, why not use it instead.

And then we have the broken record types that seem to rush here to post some news they think adds to their arsenal of facts that support the obvious conclusion that RIM is on the wrong track, or RIM IS DOOMED!!! And we end up with another thread like this one.

Veterans here have seen it over and over and over. If you want to objectively discuss pros and cons about the way something is, fine. But don't try and do it in a rant thread like this. Start your own thread and ask questions or ask for comment on an opinion in such a way to encourage respectful responses. I guarantee you will get them. Not that you won't get sarcastic responses too, but even those often provide information as well.

Just for what it's worth.

[skeevecr]

Originally Posted by chitowner

"Security" ought to be an option of the user, not a mandate of the provider. "Performance"? Seriously? I strongly doubt that. "Backup"? I can backup 'mass storage' a lot more easily than the device data.

Still- as I've said- there is no *functional* issue that requires this constraint. It OUGHT to be OPTIONAL.

If rim ignored security they might lose those security ratings that allow people in governments to use the thing. You might doubt performance, do you also doubt that virtual memory is slower on your pc than actual memory as thats about as sensible even before you take into account the huge range in speed you see on memory cards.

As you have said there are no functional reasons that you understand and/or want to believe, your own limitations rather than reality.

[skeevecr]

Originally Posted by chitowner

I'm a bit confused by your statement. How can a CDMA device be a 'world phone' when GSM is the default standard outside the US?

To clarify, did the 8830 add GSM capability? If so, I wonder why RIM didn't choose a higher-end model- like the 9530 for example- for this introduction? Isn't it reasonable to assume a GSM option would be used more on a higher end device?

Worldphone is cdma code for also includes a gsm radio, the 8830 was the first cdma device to include that and since it came out you have had other devices such as the 9530, 9550 and 9630 that also support include the feature, the only one that hasn't been a worldphone lately has been the entry-level 8530.

[skeevecr]

Originally Posted by chitowner

You obviously have more experience with BB's than I, at least from the # of posts ascribed to you. But I find it insulting when folks in the BB forums say things like "if you don't like it then get something else."

You are not alone in this Conyers. I have seen and encountered it in many instances elsewhere on BB-forums and it is contrary to the expected spirit of an online community. I do not understand why this 'buzz off' attitude is so common on BB-forums.

The main reason for a somewhat less helpful attitude these days is that on most forums like this you get a lot of people who just want to troll blackberry owners and advocate iphone or android.

Incidentally, people have responded to your complaints and questions giving answers, you have simply not liked the answers and continued to complain because you want your blackberry to do something it doesn't do, especially when a blackberry is simply synching the data in concern, its very easy to synch another device to outlook and get the same contacts and appointments.

[skeevecr]

Originally Posted by TXLady

AT&T Motorola Backflip
Motorola Backflip (TM) Cell Phone - Wireless from AT&T

Tmobile G1, Motorola Cliq, Motorola Cliq XT, Samsung Behold II, TMobile My Touch
TMobile Android phones

It is quite obvious from most of your posts in this string that you don't do much research, just throw statements around.

Given the context in which he was using the term I think he actually means an android worldphone device and is simply phrasing it badly.

[Noodle22]

The first Android phones in Canada were gsm devices.. There are many Android gsm devices out there right now.

[chitowner]

Originally Posted by jsconyers

There are GSM Android based phones

Guess I sit corrected again. I will definitely look into that. Do you happen to know which particular models? I don't think it's available on the newer Motorola Droid.

[chitowner]

Originally Posted by skeevecr

If rim ignored security they might lose those security ratings that allow people in governments to use the thing. You might doubt performance, do you also doubt that virtual memory is slower on your pc than actual memory as thats about as sensible even before you take into account the huge range in speed you see on memory cards.

As you have said there are no functional reasons that you understand and/or want to believe, your own limitations rather than reality.

I don't see it as RIM 'relaxing security' in a realistic sense to just allow owners of their product an option. As I've already stated, it's clearly an option that would be over-ridden in most enterprise, and certainly government uses. But those users are not owners, so the "security" argument doesn't really make much difference.

I do take your point on relative speed, and that's not something I'd claim to be an expert in, but I have not observed any delay when browsing stuff on my inserted media card. I am certainly comfortable with my contact list and text messages operating at the same speed. I can't read as fast as the data can display anyway.

More to the point on this general topic, it is abundantly clear that RIM can not maintain market share doing "business as usual". They have clearly taken a turn toward more 'bling' (to put it crudely) in some of their most recent products. The trend is away from a staunchly utilitarian device and aggressively towards a more mass-market appeal.

RIM will probably retain a few no-nonsense products in its lineup. The Storm, Curve, and certain other models are no longer in that category. IMHO, if they have their 'ear to the ground', cracking open some of the more tightly-held features in their OS is not an unreasonable path to take.

CT

[chitowner]

Originally Posted by skeevecr

The main reason for a somewhat less helpful attitude these days is that on most forums like this you get a lot of people who just want to troll blackberry owners and advocate iphone or android.

Incidentally, people have responded to your complaints and questions giving answers, you have simply not liked the answers and continued to complain because you want your blackberry to do something it doesn't do, especially when a blackberry is simply synching the data in concern, its very easy to synch another device to outlook and get the same contacts and appointments.

Happily you don't accuse me of being a troll.

And It's not that I just don't "like" some of the answers. I do yield when a reasonable correction is made. I certainly have homework to do regarding the Android/GSM thing for instance.

But I prefer to view my position as an argument, as much as a complaint. I am arguing the point that RIM does not provide something that I feel it is reasonable for them to do. True, "synching" is a feature that is pretty much a given, at least as far as emails are concerned.

That is not the case with SMS and MMS messaging. I did try a couple third-party apps, but they don't work very well. As for synching my email contacts and my telephone contacts, well, I bought my Storm outright, it was not provided to me for business, and I don't have a lot of crossover between my email contacts and my telephone contacts anyway, so I have never even considered merging them just to get synchronization. In my particular case, there just isn't much reason to do that, so I am focused on being able to have more control over my own data.

This is reminiscent of exchanges in previous years over parallel issues with Microsoft; eg, if you have to pay for the software to access your own data, then who really owns it? In today's world, the lock Microsoft used to have on applications for word processing, spreadsheets, etc, etc, that would run on Windows machines no longer exists.

I fully expect that, in time, the same sort of "liberating" applications will be available for BB devices. We're not there yet, but there are a few options that have cracked the shell, such as "Barry" and "Funambol" for Linux. More will come.

CT

[SmoothRunnings]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

IMO the iPhone isn't RIM's most feared competitor. I think the android phone is more apt to cut into the BB business. The iPhone isn't going to change (much). They pimp their app store and all the cutesy apps you can use to read golf greens check your bank balance with. Those are nice for people like me, but the business people really don't mess with that stuff. If they do they have a second phone for that. Iphone's Achilles heel is ATT's weak 3G network, and they'd pay a fortune if they could roll it out on Verizon today. Because they're getting shot at by the Droid, the eris, the Incredible and once you've gone Android you won't be back for an iPhone.

Move to Canada were the GSM and CDMA networks are far better than the ones in the USA. I have friends who have accounts on both networks and don't have any problems.

The big problem is how these networks are structured in the USA, which isn't an iPhone problem instead it's an carrier problem. When AT&T couldn't release the BOLD because the iPhone's had eaten up all the 3G network bandwidth us Canadians were "LOL" at you guys because the carrier at the time Rogers Communications didn't have any such problems carrying both devices, why?, because we know how to properly structure our networks to support both effectively and efficiently.

Also I failed to add that the networks in South America which are all GSM/3G didn't have any problems supporting both iPhone and the BOLD as well when they first came out. This problem you are talking about only happened in the good old US of A!

[Noodle22]

Um, you also have to conisder that there are more people in California then there are in all of Canada, which is why there is so much network to around It's also why our prices are higher, if we had more consumers we could support lower costing plans.

Very few networks run of CDMA now in Canada with Telus and Bell switchin to HSPA as well as their subsidieries Virgin, Koodoo, and there is one more that is under Bell as well... They are still running a CDMA network beneath their new one as well but eventually they will boot anyone who will not migrate over.

But yes, Rogers has a great network and that's why I've been with them since I was 17 I had a breif stint with Telus paygo and it was so so.

[SmoothRunnings]

Originally Posted by Noodle22

Um, you also have to conisder that there are more people in California then there are in all of Canada, which is why there is so much network to around It's also why our prices are higher, if we had more consumers we could support lower costing plans.

Very few networks run of CDMA now in Canada with Telus and Bell switchin to HSPA as well as their subsidieries Virgin, Koodoo, and there is one more that is under Bell as well... They are still running a CDMA network beneath their new one as well but eventually they will boot anyone who will not migrate over.

But yes, Rogers has a great network and that's why I've been with them since I was 17 I had a breif stint with Telus paygo and it was so so.

Yeah Fido sucks though, you'd think Rogers would help them be more stable.

You also forget that companies in Canada have the mentality that Canadian's are happy to pay more for their products and services. It's not just cell/pda usage but our cars cost more, our drugs cost more, etc. At least the drugs costing more is soon to change thank god!

But one thing is for sure the US cell/pda plans aren't as good as the Canadian ones. They don't get complete txt msg plans, or feature plans like we do in Canada, instead they have to pay extra for each thing even though it's still pretty cheap!

[TXLady]

Originally Posted by chitowner

Guess I sit corrected again. I will definitely look into that. Do you happen to know which particular models? I don't think it's available on the newer Motorola Droid.

Originally Posted by TXLady

AT&T Motorola Backflip
Motorola Backflip (TM) Cell Phone - Wireless from AT&T

Tmobile G1, Motorola Cliq, Motorola Cliq XT, Samsung Behold II, TMobile My Touch
TMobile Android phones

It is quite obvious from most of your posts in this string that you don't do much research, just throw statements around.

Links provided in previous response.

Also, if you are serious about Android, the BB forums equivalent is at http://androidforums.com/. You will learn everything you want or need to know about Android there. Why do I know this? I had the Droid for 3 months. Nice but the relief at returning to BB was major.

[SmoothRunnings]

Originally Posted by Noodle22

Um, you also have to conisder that there are more people in California then there are in all of Canada, which is why there is so much network to around It's also why our prices are higher, if we had more consumers we could support lower costing plans.

Very few networks run of CDMA now in Canada with Telus and Bell switchin to HSPA as well as their subsidieries Virgin, Koodoo, and there is one more that is under Bell as well... They are still running a CDMA network beneath their new one as well but eventually they will boot anyone who will not migrate over.

But yes, Rogers has a great network and that's why I've been with them since I was 17 I had a breif stint with Telus paygo and it was so so.

Oh forgot to mention that Apple's last quarter results came out today, they sold over 9 million iPhones.

[chitowner]

Originally Posted by TXLady

Links provided in previous response.

Also, if you are serious about Android, the BB forums equivalent is at Android Forums. You will learn everything you want or need to know about Android there. Why do I know this? I had the Droid for 3 months. Nice but the relief at returning to BB was major.

I would be interested in knowing what features we have on BB's that you found lacking on the Android. Or was it more of a look-and-feel thing?

[chitowner]

Originally Posted by Noodle22

... if we had more consumers we could support lower costing plans.

I sincerely doubt that! A brief review of pricing histories for cell phone companies, ISP's and cable networks will show one thing: a consistent increase in pricing, regardless of underlaying service structure.

Of course, that's obvious in the US. It may be that in Canada things would be more equitable, but I doubt it.

CT

[TXLady]

Originally Posted by chitowner

I would be interested in knowing what features we have on BB's that you found lacking on the Android. Or was it more of a look-and-feel thing?

Different people have different priorities. Mine are email and PIM functions (contacts and calendar) and being able to sync with Outlook. I find BB much better for these. Syncing contacts between Droid and Outlook required third party software (for two way sync). Calendar could be synced through gmail but gmail messed up all of my recurring annual appointments like holidays and birthdays. Droid liked to combine contacts (and sometimes it made no sense the way it decided to combine them).

Internet was great on the Droid. That is only a secondary priority to me. Sure there are a LOT of apps for Android -- and a large number are pure crap. Any App that I need for the BB I've been able to find -- but then I don't need a large number of aps.

I have previously likened the Droid to a summer fling. Fun while it lasted but just not anything to stay with long term. But that is me and YMMV.

Almost forgot -- I hated the security on the Droid. No native password lock. I ALWAYS pw lock my BB. Droid has this stupid pattern lock thing that I felt was insecure. You get to create a lock pattern using 9 dots. I always figured if someone found the Droid, it wouldn't be too hard to look at the screen and figure out what the pattern was.

For what it's worth, a co-worker (who happens to be young enough to be my daughter) got a Droid at same time I did. When she heard I had returned to a BB, she asked me how she could do the same thing because she hates her Droid as being too complex. This from a person who is a brilliant programmer and is able to outperform anyone else I know. Her hubby on the other hand (another brilliant person) loves it. Everyone needs to chose what they want/can afford. And there is no reason that we all have to want the same thing.

[iLanon]

I agree with everyone on the first page blackberry's are not for teens in my opinion, when I first got my tour I thought I was going to have a fun experience like I did on my iphone but i soon found out that your fun is restricted when you think of all the iphone possibilities, basically what I am trying to say is the iphone (is where the fun is at) and blackberry's (are where the professional and security side is at).
Teens go iphones
Business People go Blackberry

[benf13]

I went from an Iphone 3G S to a Bold 9000, from there to a Droid on Verizon, my son got the 9000, after using the Droid for about 2 weeks I went back to my Bold 9000 (My son now has the Droid), the 3G S and Droid are very nice phones but they feel fragle and the touchscreen interface is not for me, i didnt like it on the 3G S nor the Droid, the other bad thing is that I have a Droid on Verizon to pay for for just under 2 years and I personaly really dont like Verizon. I suspect that there are others that feel the way I do, I do wish the 9700, 9700a or 9710, whatever it will be called, was as wide as the 9000 though, i really hate that tiny 9700.