[ibmman69]

Once again, I never said or even implied I was lied to about the gps on the phone. I was told it worked by one sales person but I knew that was not true and didn't base my decision on that representation.

What you are saying is akin to an argument that voters don't have a right express their opinion after they vote. Just because we have vzw doesn't mean we can't complain about their policies.

I have been escalated to the president's office before. I will be happy to give you the address if you want to pin me.

Arrogance will kill you in the business world. Look at what happened to IBM a decade or so ago, and look at what is happening to the wired telephone industry.

[penguin3107]

Originally Posted by ibmman69

Once again, I never said or even implied I was lied to about the gps on the phone. I was told it worked by one sales person but I knew that was not true and didn't base my decision on that representation.

What you are saying is akin to an argument that voters don't have a right express their opinion after they vote. Just because we have vzw doesn't mean we can't complain about their policies.

I have been escalated to the president's office before. I will be happy to give you the address if you want to pin me.

Arrogance will kill you in the business world. Look at what happened to IBM a decade or so ago, and look at what is happening to the wired telephone industry.

I'm not about to get into a political discussion in this forum, since that's pretty much frowned upon by the mods. If you had any other analogy to make, I'd be more than happy to debate it.

You feel you're free to petition VZW to unlock GPS. I'm not about to try to stop you. Go ahead with your quest. You certainly don't need my approval on the matter.

I've said all I need to say on the issue. I'll refrain from any more commentary, and I wish you luck in your GPS unlocking endeavors.

[JGBerry]

Originally Posted by penguin3107

I'm not about to get into a political discussion in this forum, since that's pretty much frowned upon by the mods. If you had any other analogy to make, I'd be more than happy to debate it.

You feel you're free to petition VZW to unlock GPS. I'm not about to try to stop you. Go ahead with your quest. You certainly don't need my approval on the matter.

I've said all I need to say on the issue. I'll refrain from any more commentary, and I wish you luck in your GPS unlocking endeavors.

i second that... may the force be with you

[MikesTooLz]

the red sox suck

[birddog]

Originally Posted by Dawg

Ok, a multi million dollar company is going to miss your 180.00 to 200.00 a month why?

Obviously, if I am the only person that bolts and give them that reason, you are correct; they won't change a thing. The only way it makes a difference is if they hear the same thing from thousands of bolting customers.

Originally Posted by Dawg

Sprint asked why I was leaving I told them and they said bye see how it works. They have lost over 300,000 subscribers in the past 3 quarters have they improved on the IDEN side hell no and will they hell no. Why because they are making money and dont care what we think.

If your (implied) assertion about Sprint is correct, that they have heard the reason you gave for leaving 300,000 times, and they have not attempted to correct it, they have serious management problems. More likely, I suspect if they are loosing that many customers, and they are not address the problem, the customers are giving various reasons (or no reasons) why they are leaving.

Originally Posted by penguin3107

I'm sure they will ask why, but regardless of anyone's reasoning, they're still not likely to enable the internal GPS on the 8830 unless they can generate a monthly revenue stream from doing so.
(This is their plan, with the pending introduction of VZnavigator for the 8830.)

Yes, the only way it will make a difference is if they perceive that the lost revenue (from people like me that don't renew our contracts) is greater that the additional revenue they get from VZnavigator on the 8830.

In my case, they will be loosing my families total monthly revenue (about $150/month) because they will be trying to make an additional $10/month.

I have no idea how many customers they will loose because of this, but if they loose 1 person (like me who pays for 3 phones) for every 14 VZNs they sell with an 8830 -- they will have lost money overall. Whether they actually do the math -- who knows, but they probably will if they hear it thousands of times.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by birddog

Obviously, if I am the only person that bolts and give them that reason, you are correct; they won't change a thing. The only way it makes a difference is if they hear the same thing from thousands of bolting customers.



If your (implied) assertion about Sprint is correct, that they have heard the reason you gave for leaving 300,000 times, and they have not attempted to correct it, they have serious management problems. More likely, I suspect if they are loosing that many customers, and they are not address the problem, the customers are giving various reasons (or no reasons) why they are leaving.



Yes, the only way it will make a difference is if they perceive that the lost revenue (from people like me that don't renew our contracts) is greater that the additional revenue they get from VZnavigator on the 8830.

In my case, they will be loosing my families total monthly revenue (about $150/month) because they will be trying to make an additional $10/month.

I have no idea how many customers they will loose because of this, but if they loose 1 person (like me who pays for 3 phones) for every 14 VZNs they sell with an 8830 -- they will have lost money overall. Whether they actually do the math -- who knows, but they probably will if they hear it thousands of times.

But I am hearing from only a few of you who want to petion some if not most dont care.

The 300,000 people that sprint lost was on the nextel side. They bought nextel and drove them straight into the ground. Now I read today that the Nextel brand as of July 1st will no longer be at all.

I wish you luck but I still feel you are wasting your time. You should have done the research first.

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by MikesTooLz

the red sox suck

Uncalled for....keep it civil, please.

[jase0626]

I think the question to ask is why the GPS is not available? I really don't have any complaints with VZW and the 8830. But I am interested to know why they did this with the GPS....?

[penguin3107]

Originally Posted by jase0626

I think the question to ask is why the GPS is not available? I really don't have any complaints with VZW and the 8830. But I am interested to know why they did this with the GPS....?

Verizon will be releasing VZnavigator for the 8830 which will make use of the internal GPS on this device.
VZnavigator will be Verizon's own subscription based navigation solution and will likely generate a good source of additional income for them.

It makes sense (for Verizon) to lock down the internal GPS from other third-party nav software so it basically forces a subscriber to use a Verizon service if they want to make use of the internal GPS.

[Dawg]

well atleast we can insure our phones. How many AT&T people can say that lol

[birddog]

Originally Posted by Dawg

I wish you luck but I still feel you are wasting your time. You should have done the research first.

I did do the research first, that is why I will not be renewing with VZW when my current VZW contract is up next month and I will be shopping for a new phone.

So they will not getting my 3 phone contract nor the bucks from my 3 phone upgrades -- just because they want to charge me an extra $10/month on one of my phones.

Other than the fact that VZW has disabled the GPS, their 8830 would be my first choice for a new phone right now. As it is, I am torn between the AT&T 8800 and the 8300. (I just learned here that Sprint will be introducing an 8830 -- I haven't done the research on that yet to know if that is an attractive option for me). And I know, the 8300 does not have GPS -- but I like the form factor much better, so, even without GPS and G3, it is still an attractive option.

The reason for ruling out Verizon is a principal thing, I think it is a scumbag thing they did disabling the GPS, so I won't give them my business. You know the phrase: "money talks...".

When myself and a few other employees left a job a few years ago, we all told HR that we were leaving because the company was not paying competitive salaries (which they were not, I left for MUCH more money). If it had been just me, I'm sure nothing would have been done. But I was thanked by former coworkers who stayed, because the office basically got across the board 35% raises because they didn't want the exodus to continue.

[JGBerry]

Originally Posted by birddog

I did do the research first, that is why I will not be renewing with VZW when my current VZW contract is up next month and I will be shopping for a new phone.

So they will not getting my 3 phone contract nor the bucks from my 3 phone upgrades -- just because they want to charge me an extra $10/month on one of my phones.

Other than the fact that VZW has disabled the GPS, their 8830 would be my first choice for a new phone right now. As it is, I am torn between the AT&T 8800 and the 8300. (I just learned here that Sprint will be introducing an 8830 -- I haven't done the research on that yet to know if that is an attractive option for me). And I know, the 8300 does not have GPS -- but I like the form factor much better, so, even without GPS and G3, it is still an attractive option.

The reason for ruling out Verizon is a principal thing, I think it is a scumbag thing they did disabling the GPS, so I won't give them my business. You know the phrase: "money talks...".

When myself and a few other employees left a job a few years ago, we all told HR that we were leaving because the company was not paying competitive salaries (which they were not, I left for MUCH more money). If it had been just me, I'm sure nothing would have been done. But I was thanked by former coworkers who stayed, because the office basically got across the board 35% raises because they didn't want the exodus to continue.

power by numbers...

[ibmman69]

I really don't understand all the negative reactions to this thread. If you don't want to participate, fine, but why do you have to be so negative toward those of us who are customers too?

This is the email I received tonight:

***
Good evening Mr. Short. Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless through our website. My name is XXX, and I am happy to assist you regarding the Autonomous GPS function of the Blackberry 8830 device. I apologize that the disabling of this feature is so upsetting to you.

Mr. Short, at present, we have no information as to when the GPS function will be added to this device. I have spoken with 2 people in our Technical Department, and they have no information either. I a, sorry that we are unable to offer you this capability at the present time.

Thank you for allowing me to serve you this evening.

We appreciate your business. Please contact us at our website for any of your future needs. Again, thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services.
***

This is the most up front answer I think anyone has received to date.

[Dawg]

Its not negative if you want to do it go right ahead I am just saying you are wasting your time. I just cant believe that GPS is such a big deal to leave a great network. Especially when its not even true GPS

[MikesTooLz]

here is the email I got last night.

Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are sorry to learn that you are not pleased with our Blackberry 8830 GPS capabilities. We understand that this can be a source of frustration and we are happy to assist you with your concerns.

Verizon Wireless is committed to providing the very latest in products and services. At this time, we are unable to state if or when GPS services will be offered for your PDA. Currently VZ Navigator is available through Get-It-Now. Unfortunately, Get-It-Now can not be accessed through the Blackberry 8830. We understand and apologize for any frustration regarding this but we are only able to provide information regarding products or services that we are currently offering. We are unable to disclose any unconfirmed information because it would be subject to change and could raise expectations that may not be met.

Verizon Wireless offers a 15-day Worry Free Guarantee that enables you to test our service. If you were to find that our products or service do not meet your expectations, the equipment can be exchanged, or returned and service cancelled without penalty. You will still be required to pay for the service and associated charges during the time it was active and all applicable taxes and fees.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to assist you today. We appreciate your business and thank you for using Verizon Wireless. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.

Sincerely,

Shacova
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service

Here are some email addresses I found.
VZW - Executive Office CA/NV
VZW - Executive Office CA/NV

Thank you for contacting our President. Your comments have been received and will be forwarded to our Executive Offices. You will be contacted within two business days.

[birddog]

Originally Posted by penguin3107

It makes sense (for Verizon) to lock down the internal GPS from other third-party nav software so it basically forces a subscriber to use a Verizon service if they want to make use of the internal GPS.

I reluctantly agree with you because I think many foolish people will pay the $10 a month for a service which should be free. That said, I still think it is a slimey thing for Verizon to do. What is next, maybe they will block access to google, yahoo, MSN, etc. and charge $10/month for access to the new VZNoodle search engine. Maybe they will block access to dictionary.com so that we will need to pay for their VZNictionary service.

If they were to make a really good VZNavigator product (one with up to date real-time traffic, maybe one that takes traffic light delays into account when charting a route) I would gladly pay the $10/month.

Using the strength of their network to sell other products is a similar marketing tactic that Microsoft uses, using the strength of their dominant OS to force our hand to use their browser, etc., which is why everyone hates Microsoft. But, it has been very very successful for MS -- even though most people feel disdain for MS -- we still buy their stuff.

The questions for Verizon have yet to be answered:
1, Will there be a public relations crisis because of this tactic? (sadly, probably not)
2. If so, will the strength of their network be sufficient for them to get away with it (like the strength of MS's OS)?

Petitions are useless (except maybe to politicians who might see signatures as votes). What businesses care about is money, so I simply will not give them any of my business.

[MichaelBB]

Originally Posted by Dawg

Ok, a multi million dollar company is going to miss your 180.00 to 200.00 a month why?

Sprint asked why I was leaving I told them and they said bye see how it works. They have lost over 300,000 subscribers in the past 3 quarters have they improved on the IDEN side hell no and will they hell no. Why because they are making money and dont care what we think.

I thought the IDEN network was coming down and they had to put up something new because of something to do with the Government and Frequencies and such ?

Look at VZW's Push to talk , thats a joke and how much money did they dump and AT&T did the same thing

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by MichaelBB

I thought the IDEN network was coming down and they had to put up something new because of something to do with the Government and Frequencies and such ?

Look at VZW's Push to talk , thats a joke and how much money did they dump and AT&T did the same thing

That is true but it wont help the consumer. Nextels service is garbage these days the day I left them I had 19 dropped calls with full service showing. I complained about dropped calls for 9 months. Not one credit was ever issued or even so much as an Im sorry was even stated.

[packetknife]

Originally Posted by birddog

I reluctantly agree with you because I think many foolish people will pay the $10 a month for a service which should be free. That said, I still think it is a slimey thing for Verizon to do. What is next, maybe they will block access to google, yahoo, MSN, etc. and charge $10/month for access to the new VZNoodle search engine. Maybe they will block access to dictionary.com so that we will need to pay for their VZNictionary service.

Well, if they take that tact it wouldn't work for those with BES/MDS services. Service providers would quickly use that route as opposed to BIS or local TCP which VZW would have some filtering ability over.

And while I strongly agree/suspect VZW won't make it ~easy~ to use third-party anything I hardly think they'll be able to keep it locked out. Especially when they have such a business push and various businesses run CRM, want various integrated GPS, etc. With the 8830 they addressed the business international needs, now they're going to have to address the salesforce, CRM, etc. needs which means MORE integration with third parties (or as it may be, just opening up).

-Pk

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by packetknife

Well, if they take that tact it wouldn't work for those with BES/MDS services. Service providers would quickly use that route as opposed to BIS or local TCP which VZW would have some filtering ability over.

And while I strongly agree/suspect VZW won't make it ~easy~ to use third-party anything I hardly think they'll be able to keep it locked out. Especially when they have such a business push and various businesses run CRM, want various integrated GPS, etc. With the 8830 they addressed the business international needs, now they're going to have to address the salesforce, CRM, etc. needs which means MORE integration with third parties (or as it may be, just opening up).

-Pk

the GPS and MMS are the only two things you cant use on verizon I can use all other 3rd party softwares