[slinky]

Originally Posted by JSanders

Slinky, I may not be adult enough to carry on a conversation with you, but I duly note you're at post #57 and still making personal attacks on other users, and I am sure I will next in line (again). And your personal attacks continue in almost each of your posts along with your victim mentality that you have to be saved from this horrible device.

What personal attacks? The fact that junior1790 has just kept coming after me telling me to go hug Treos somewhere else but has not contributed at all to the conversation - like at least you have - is an observation. If you're going to go after someone, don't just come after the new person here.

This board is ripe with posts about the memory problem on some 8800, and advice on how to fix such.

I have an 8830. Apparently others here have discovered that not only is there a different speed clock for the processor but there is also a memory configuration difference between the 8800 and the 8830. This thread has several posts referring to this issue and a hope for a bug fix. I do appreciate your pointing me towards the FAQ but it is N/A.

Your tethering issue, as you know, is your carrier and corporate issue.

Yep, I'm in total agreement with you here. It's not a BB issue and wish I had a carrier other than Verizon.

As far as your <<palmdata>> problem, I would sync with Outlook, and clear that excess data in Outlook, global search replace with nothing, then re-sync with your BB.

Great idea and thank you kindly. Oddly enough Outlook 2007 shows nothing appearing in the data fields. I can't figure out where this one is coming from.

Battery--get a car charger, and you have the wall charger. Top off the battery anytime you can. That is the recommended method for these batteries. At your desk, in your car, at home, when you are composing further personal attacks on other BBForum users--good time to top off the charge.

This is now the second time you've attacked me in your reply. If junior1790 just keeps coming back for more and doesn't even contribute with something of substance, why are you getting on my case? I really don't care to engage in personal attacks and won't bother replying to junior next time. I was just hoping that in his expertise he might be able to contribute some useful information about what were talking about.

Also make sure what programs are running in the background. ALT + ESCAPE will show you the background applications. You should really only see the homescreen, browser, phone and addressbook, I think. Anymore, try to close out of them to save battery. Web browser on an active web page will use the battery, so make sure you close that. Google maps and BB Maps are big battery eaters, close when not in use.

Many thanks. I have decided not to use Google maps atm because BB Maps works in a satisfactory manner right now. I've tried to close out the other apps and think you're right - although I think BB Messenger is also always running. I'm not sure why this is necessary but it is.

Thank you for helping me become more familiar with this device and helping me cram in enough applications into a small memory footprint than I'm used to.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

[JSanders]

Yes BB Messenger does run in the background as well, I forgot about it. Likewise other apps like BBCorrector and BeamBerry will run in background and you can't close.

[junior1790]

Originally Posted by slinky

What personal attacks? The fact that junior1790 has just kept coming after me telling me to go hug Treos somewhere else but has not contributed at all to the conversation - like at least you have - is an observation. If you're going to go after someone, don't just come after the new person here.

[/QUOTE]
How can i possibly contribute, you rebut any and all comments and complain about anything you can think of. Need I remind you how this thread started off? I started off with some mild suggestions to try and help ease your difficult transition to the real world. In all seriousness are you really going to drop the bb for THIS

[bostonnerd]

Originally Posted by slinky

I'm finding that adding the camera to the curve and "consumerizing" the BB is making a move towards the antithesis of the tool you described.

Exactly......and hence the confusion in the market. Prior to Rim "consumerizing" the platform, there was no confusion on where the design was targeted. Now, the lines are starting to blur and confusion is creeping in.

I give Engineering tours to Global 100 executives that come to Corporate for briefings. Cameras of any type are strictly forbidden in the facility. In the past, I could just say that if they had a Blackberry, no problems using it. Now I have to get much more granular in my requests.

I'm from the "old school" in that I want a device with narrow useage parameters that does its job perfectly. If I want to listen to music I have an extremely high end system in my house to do it. I am not going to compromise on mediocre audio quality while I listen. If I need to take photographs, I will do it with one of my Nikon or Canon systems. If I need to read email and check my schedule I will do it on a Blackberry...and never the twain shall meet

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by slinky

I'm wondering if other PDA phone owners have felt the same about what a letdown the Blackberry has been.

Not at all but, again, not all of us have the same needs as you. The Blackberry was a breath of fresh air coming from Treos and WM devices IMO.

Originally Posted by penguin3107

The BlackBerry is a mobile e-mail device, which happens to have a phone and some simple PIM functions. Until recently BlackBerry devices had no multimedia capabilities at all.

This is really important to note for those of you that have been very disappointed. It's not a justification for the current state of the BB platform -- it's just the way it is. Until very recently a lot of these non-email features either didn't exist or were around in a very limited form. The BB platform has only recently opened up and it's going to take time for things to change. There are, however, definitely reasons why the BB has survived countless "Blackberry killers". Now, whether these reasons matter to you or not is another matter but they have been important enough for the millions that have chosen BB as their platform of choice. It's really up to you to decide if these lacking features are enough to move to another platform.

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerry

When it comes to a mobile office platform...don't believe the hype.

Could you show me exactly where RIM bills the Blackberry as a "mobile office platform"?

Originally Posted by slinky

(2) Blows Smartphone navigation away. I'm not so fond of some of the need to do extra taps but the machine is very responsive and for the most part it's well thought out and quick.

(5) Trackball is excellent. I really miss the "page down" and other great options with the Treo 5 way controller and other function key buttons for quick access. Still, pretty well done so that it minimizes the loss and I think there is a key combo to do this. There is also the special button on the side so good job RIM.

You would probably benefit a lot from reading BlackberryFAQ.com, the Getting Started Gude for your 8830, and Stinsonddog's tips sheets. Learning the keyboard shortcuts makes a big difference in making navigation even faster and more efficient. You can use the trackball and menu key for everything but the less you rely on them the better your experience will be.

Originally Posted by slinky

(3) Lack of organizational and interface tools for the OS. Unless there is a launcher, finding applications on a BB is a horrific mess. This might be a learning curve issue but it's not easy to just sort your apps and customize these items easily, e.g. all your games in folder "Games", utilities in "Utilities", etc. I find myself scrolling like mad to find the icon with the app I seek. Preferences -- this is a joke. Since I'm computer savvy I figured out that if you made it to the phone application you could go to the menu to set options. Global preferences/settings needs to be reorganized.

This is another area where it's a new feature being implemented by RIM. The Curve introduces custom folders and folder management. This may be rolled out in an OS update to the 8800 and 8830 but until then, you'll need to hide icons that you don't intend to use and organize your icons based on how frequently you access them (at least, that's my recommendation). I always hide icons that have a hard key equivalent since there's no need for the icon if you have a button for it.

Originally Posted by slinky

(4) No touch screen - BB has done a good job to minimize the inconvenience. I'll admit, it's miles better than a Smartphone but it is missed. I'll live without it.

This is definitely a matter of personal preference and I can see why those coming from touch screen devices would miss it. However, I've always found them to be a liability as I've never had a touchscreen device where the digitizer didn't either failed completely or end up so far out of calibration that it was utterly useless (even with the calibration tool on the device).

Originally Posted by slinky

(5) No camera - nice to have and I'm still finding it rare that phones with cameras are confiscated. Only a terrible pain if they start enforcing it in our building. I don't know how they will given how common they are... Curve not an option on Verizon and I like the GPS. I miss the ability to capture pictures of the whiteboard you've worked on in the boardroom but, again, I'll live without it.

There's really no telling if Verizon will offer an 81xx or 83xx but there are definitely camera-equipped BB's if you need/want them. I understand that you're stuck with Verizon but the issue you're having isn't RIM's fault. You'd really need to take this up with your carrier to let them know. I would hope that with enough complaints/requests from their customers that they would respond...

Originally Posted by slinky

I spoke too soon... insufficient memory for just a dozen applications. Wow...

This won't help you any but it's an issue specific to the 8830. I don't know why it has less available memory out of the box than the 8800. There are threads on freeing up additional memory by removing unnecessary items but that won't help with any potential memory leak issues.

Originally Posted by slinky

Additionally it's not like corporate purchasing (beaurocracy) will justify spending $200 on that which costs $30 or is free elsewhere at some point. Once I have it everyone will want it and they won't let that happen.

Since they've mandated the move to BB can't you point out to them that you need to edit documents on-the-go and that there are no other options for the BB platform? What's available for other deviecs is a moot point as you've indicated.

Originally Posted by slinky

Yes, apparently the BB has not taken great leaps to go beyond where it functions well besides being a very good integrated email client, contacts manager and occasional web browsing - although Opera is far better than anticipated.

I'd actually say that it hasn't made it there yet -- not that RIM doesn't intend to get there and not that they haven't been working at getting there. Of course, intent doesn't mean much to the end user but the fact is that change is going to take time.

Originally Posted by slinky

But business has quickly moved beyond just those two requirements, as evidenced by the numerous apps also for "play shifting" - you can turn your home PC into your server for all of your documents. It's as cheap as $20-30 to take your office with you anywhere you travel, including your entire media colleciton.

It really depends on the particular business you're looking at. We're standardized on BB and virtually none of our users take advantage of the features already available on the BB aside from email. I can't say that we're representative of the business market in general but that's what I've seen. Even our users in IT don't do much other than email. I guess this is a situation where YMMV.

Originally Posted by slinky

I ask you my fellow Blackberry owners, how many times do you wish you hadn't deleted that email which had the attachment?

It has never been an issue but again, YMMV. Also, I always file my email into Deleted Items and abotu once a month clear out that folder on my BB. It's a little more work but I have access to "deleted" email if I need it and I don't use the delete on BB and mailbox option since I don't want the same email in both places. Again, this approach doesn't work for everyone.

Originally Posted by slinky

Apparently the BB system was designed to be a simple client polling a server to provide you with what you need.

No -- it's a push device. It is a bit of a frontend but your explanation completely ignores how well the BB integrates into your mail system with BES. I don't know about other email systems but it integrates very well with Exchange. Again, that sort of functionality might not matter to your needs but it is something that the "Blackberry killer" makers keep overlooking. It's not a bad solution for many even with just BIS but again, your case isn't like most that choose the BB platform.

You haven't even mentioned centralized device management but I guess you're not an IT person. This and the BB security model are two huge reasons why BB is still the platform of choice for many entities. I know it doesn't matter to you but it is a consideration that has to be taken into account.

Originally Posted by slinky

Regarding the Treos - I have no idea why so many are complaining about the unreliability. If you keep it clean like the BB, it seems to function just fine.

Again, this is a YMMV issue. My experiences definitely don't corroborate yours. I've found Treos and WM devices to be orders of magnitude less stable. We're completely unwilling to deploy such devices as we can rely on two people from our IT staff to support hundreds of devices while only dedicating part of their time to BB support (they have other primary duties).

From a personal standpoint, stability is a primary decision point. I don't care if a device can do everything if I have to troubleshoot it all the time. I spend enough of my work day fixing other people's problems. Again, your priorities and experiences are different so I can see why you have your perspective on the matter. I've been very happy with the stability of my BB. More importantly, being the IT department for my self-employed wife, I am ecstatic about the stability of her BB over her former Treos.

[slinky]

I hear you bostonnerd! I used to work for a company that was DOD certified and dealt with the same issues. BB is now not sure what market they are trying to please and I'm not sure that they are doing anyone justice by taking a step in opposite directions. In the past, having to have two devices - which isn't so unacceptable since there is the work separation need you define - was understandable. The problem is my office insists I don't need two devices so forcing me to use a BB (which is rather ridiculous given the situation) isn't an inconvenience because it's just like a PDA...

Originally Posted by takeshi

Not at all but, again, not all of us have the same needs as you. The Blackberry was a breath of fresh air coming from Treos and WM devices IMO.

Great reply but how so? In a way I'm finding that email and contacts are great and extremely well optimized. But other than being a tool it's lacking in more of the flexibility I enjoyed, especially the fact that I didn't have to drag my laptop everywhere. I don't care about the fun stuff (e.g. slingbox, numerous satellite based entertainment options) but some of it does have its occasional appeal, especially in my industry.

There are, however, definitely reasons why the BB has survived countless "Blackberry killers". Now, whether these reasons matter to you or not is another matter but they have been important enough for the millions that have chosen BB as their platform of choice. It's really up to you to decide if these lacking features are enough to move to another platform.

(a) What were touted as true blackberry killers? They are only killers if it gives corporate IT departments an easy solution to implement and a small cost to purchasing. (b) The decision to move to a platform was made by my office. Carrying around a tiny phone in addition to my BB is one thing. Carrying around a PDA and BB defeats the purpose of mobile convenience. For now I've forwarded all my calls to my BB and it gets the job done with the exception of SMS, which I'm trying to figure out a solution.

This is another area where it's a new feature being implemented by RIM. The Curve introduces custom folders and folder management. This may be rolled out in an OS update to the 8800 and 8830 but until then, you'll need to hide icons that you don't intend to use and organize your icons based on how frequently you access them (at least, that's my recommendation). I always hide icons that have a hard key equivalent since there's no need for the icon if you have a button for it.

Now that I've spent a good amount of time with the device the past few days, what I really miss from the Treo are as follows: (a) the navigation above still doesn't have a great quick menu. I've read the faq and am not so fond of pressing letters and turning off the dial by name. (b) I haven't seen the curve but it needs more than just custom folders - which the 8830 gives you some choice. It could use some type of autoexpanding navigation I think, where you can simply roll the ball along a quasi start menu and auto expand folders to reach the application you want. Someone here mentioned the Psion - I think the Phillips devices of many years ago had this great system on some mini-Windows OS. (c) The calendaring still doesn't have the great options like Agendus for Palm does. It's very good overall though but it needs a better today screen.

There's really no telling if Verizon will offer an 81xx or 83xx but there are definitely camera-equipped BB's if you need/want them. I understand that you're stuck with Verizon but the issue you're having isn't RIM's fault. You'd really need to take this up with your carrier to let them know. I would hope that with enough complaints/requests from their customers that they would respond...

Verizon could care less what any of us think. They have the best coverage at the moment and their executives are making a ton of bonus money milking it for all its worth. They are generating more hatred toward the company than perhaps even Microsoft in its heyday. The only thing they will listen to is some event which will threaten to put a serious dent in their bottom line.

To sell the 8830 with GPS advertised but after purchase to find out it is crippled - unlike every other carrier - is borderline criminal. Few will care to spend $10 a month on their Navigator when they spent over $100 on great software like TomTom. They'll continue to use bluetooth connections to connect to their GPS hardware because they have to. And like 4 people in my office, they can't wait to jump to Sprint and buy their 8830 and give Verizon the finger at earliest convenience.

As it goes right now, I'm liking my 8830 much more than I did before. I'm getting much of what I need to do done although I still miss a number of things from the Treo and I've received some nice mail from people who feel the same way. But as bostonnerd put it so well, BB has confused the marketplace in providing a device that is really a confusing (perhaps half-a$$ed) attempt of this true business device to appeal to the consumer market. If you've got a choice (which I don't) then: (a) don't use Verizon unless you necessarily have to, and (b) if you want a device that makes the best of your day for email/contacts/phone the BB is for you. If you want flexibility, options, a slightly less efficient business tool but great entertainment and personalization tool, get a Treo (or one of the devices coming out in Q3 and Q4.)

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by slinky

Great reply but how so? In a way I'm finding that email and contacts are great and extremely well optimized. But other than being a tool it's lacking in more of the flexibility I enjoyed, especially the fact that I didn't have to drag my laptop everywhere. I don't care about the fun stuff (e.g. slingbox, numerous satellite based entertainment options) but some of it does have its occasional appeal, especially in my industry.

I didn't really expand much on that because you wouldn't find it very relevant. My needs are pretty simple and mostly rely on the PIM functionality and email. Stability was really the biggest plus for my in BB's favor but as you've said stability wasn't a big deal for you with Treo. I didn't find that to be the case in my experience even with very few or no apps loaded on the Treo. Worse yet, the SO has no tolerance for stability issues and she has not complained at all since she was switched to a BB two years ago. Her needs are fairly similar to mine so once again, it's not exactly relevant to your sitaution IMO.

Originally Posted by slinky

To sell the 8830 with GPS advertised but after purchase to find out it is crippled - unlike every other carrier - is borderline criminal.

I definitely agree and it's why I won't choose them -- regardless of their coverage but I know you're stuck in the corporate world and that doesn't help any. Thankfully we happen to use TMO and Cingular.

Originally Posted by slinky

(a) What were touted as true blackberry killers?

Oof. I don't have a good answer to that as anything with a qwerty keyboard was given that name...

Originally Posted by slinky

Now that I've spent a good amount of time with the device the past few days, what I really miss from the Treo are as follows: (a) the navigation above still doesn't have a great quick menu. I've read the faq and am not so fond of pressing letters and turning off the dial by name. (b) I haven't seen the curve but it needs more than just custom folders - which the 8830 gives you some choice. It could use some type of autoexpanding navigation I think, where you can simply roll the ball along a quasi start menu and auto expand folders to reach the application you want. Someone here mentioned the Psion - I think the Phillips devices of many years ago had this great system on some mini-Windows OS. (c) The calendaring still doesn't have the great options like Agendus for Palm does. It's very good overall though but it needs a better today screen.

The UI on the Blackberry is due for a bit of an overhaul IMO. There are many things that are remnants of the way the interface was designed to use the track wheel from what I can tell. The track wheel worked really well but the current interface doesn't really benefit much from move to the trackball.

I haven't found anything comparable to the Treos quick menus so I'm not much help there either. RIM doesn't respond to email sent to but it's really the only channel that we have for giving them feedback at the moment.

[archer6]

***Hating my BlackBerryxxx8230;xxx8230;. by slinky***

Originally Posted by slinky

What personal attacks? I really don't care to engage in personal attacks

1) You don't care to engage in personal attacks?...... Then just what is this long... ongoing... list below?

2) Your opening statement "Hating my BlackBerrry".....hate is a pretty strong word

3) Then to be so critical of others here based on their response to YOUR ascerbic approach?

4) Sounds like the words of a Victim......pitiful

Originally Posted by slinky

Ahhh... a friendly group and consistently they don't read the content!

Originally Posted by slinky

I'm waiting for intelligent discussion here from others.
I've just read a few angry messages from BB fanboys who have provided little to the discussion.

Originally Posted by slinky

To the rest, instead of telling me the obvious why don't you answer why my points aren't right on target? Are you finding the limitations of your own tool a bit... of a shortcoming? That might explain the outrage.
OK JSanders, if you have something bright to say now is your chance instead of telling us what a loyal Blackberry fanboy you are and I'm just complaining.

Originally Posted by slinky

To the children who have nothing to say but yell "troll, why are you here?" --

Originally Posted by slinky

The problem was that right away instead of just reading my post a couple of members here had nothing better to do but start hurtling insults For all of you who just could hurl insults,

Originally Posted by slinky

- out of all the people here you've typed more messages but said nothing save regular self-laudatory public service announcements regarding your expertise with PDAs and Blackberry devices. Get away from the mirror and provide something useful to the conversation. Even the little girl would.

[dwp1975]

Originally Posted by archer6

2) Your opening statement "Hating my BlackBerrry".....hate is a pretty strong

Nah, it's not a strong word b/c I can definately say I "HATE" windows mobile phones....LOL. If you spend ALOT of money paying retail for phones and it's less than stellar the feeling of "hate" towards it is an understandable feeling. What gets me is why do people take personal offense (not you archer6, forum posters in general) to someone else's dislike for a device you own as well. I almost fell out of my seat the first time I read the term "fanboy" back when I was a treo user, and saw it again as a Q user on their board and finally see it here. Everyone needs to lighten up, and focus these feelings of fustration towards the carriers and manufactorers who make devices that is supposed to make our lives easier.

[John Clark]

I can't believe this is now 70 posts long......

Moved to Rants & Raves

[brucejr]

Originally Posted by archer6

***Hating my BlackBerry……. by slinky***



1) You don't care to engage in personal attacks?...... Then just what is this long... ongoing... list below?

2) Your opening statement "Hating my BlackBerrry".....hate is a pretty strong word

3) Then to be so critical of others here based on their response to YOUR ascerbic approach?

4) Sounds like the words of a Victim......pitiful

Well articulated archer6. Like others have posted here slinky, many of us have used WM, and Palm based devices (even some Symbian based devices also). Many on this forum are long-time BB users. Your issues are valid but your subterfuge each suggestion. You appear (in my opinion) to have resigned to the judgment that you did not like BB so no matter what was suggested you countered against it. If you are seeking solutions to your dilemma, they can be found in many threads, and in the BBF FAQ (many but not all). Please remember that communication is only 10% of what is said and we can only "see" what you have typed. Sometimes the things we "say" can have unintended consequences (sometimes it isn't what you have said, but how people have received it.).

That being said for me the BB is a very stable platform. Most EOC's use BB (not Palm, or WM) as their device of choice due to stability and reliability. Like with any device, learning it is just as much an art as it is a science. Granted the BB is not for everyone, but for everyone there is a device. Just as much as the BB is a tool, so is the BBF. With any device, there can be shortcomings or bugs that need to be fixed either in OS upgrades, or newer devices (firmware versus software).

You are correct, going from a PDA to a BB can be a difficult but not impossible, transition. Things I would like to see are WiFi, IR, and document reading/creating/editing programs (that are preloaded not extra) are what come to my mind first. With the market for smart-devices increasing you will see many companies (BB included) re-thinking, and re-tooling their device(s).

[MERK350Z]

Originally Posted by brucejr

Well articulated archer6. Like others have posted here slinky, many of us have used WM, and Palm based devices (even some Symbian based devices also). Many on this forum are long-time BB users. Your issues are valid but your subterfuge each suggestion. You appear (in my opinion) to have resigned to the judgment that you did not like BB so no matter what was suggested you countered against it. If you are seeking solutions to your dilemma, they can be found in many threads, and in the BBF FAQ (many but not all). Please remember that communication is only 10% of what is said and we can only "see" what you have typed. Sometimes the things we "say" can have unintended consequences (sometimes it isn't what you have said, but how people have received it.).

That being said for me the BB is a very stable platform. Most EOC's use BB (not Palm, or WM) as their device of choice due to stability and reliability. Like with any device, learning it is just as much an art as it is a science. Granted the BB is not for everyone, but for everyone there is a device. Just as much as the BB is a tool, so is the BBF. With any device, there can be shortcomings or bugs that need to be fixed either in OS upgrades, or newer devices (firmware versus software).

You are correct, going from a PDA to a BB can be a difficult but not impossible, transition. Things I would like to see are WiFi, IR, and document reading/creating/editing programs (that are preloaded not extra) are what come to my mind first. With the market for smart-devices increasing you will see many companies (BB included) re-thinking, and re-tooling their device(s).

i have to agree with you , i myself coming from a palmtreo 650 and a nokia 9500 the blackberry hands down is the best platform when it comes down to being stable. i think alot of people who are coming from other pda's need to understand the blackberry is a real tool not a toy like some other pda's at one point in mylife i would sware by pocket pc and symbian but after my first blackberry 8700c i will not try any other pda because the blackberry does its job perfect the way it was ment to be. if your looking for an entertainment phone the blackberry is not for you , and yes the new blackbberry has a cam and plays music but if you want something out there that does that better then i have to say yes there is some pda's out there that will do that better then the blackberry as far as everyday business such as e mails appointments and documents the king is blackberry is king

[slinky]

MERK350Z -- I am in agreement with you the Blackberry is tops when it comes to contacts and email management. From spending a few days I realize just how well it excels at this task, even better than the Treo in many respects. The problem is going to the true mobile office from there and I'm really missing the ease of the offline component - I think that's the real reason I'm having a really difficult time with my BB.

As fortunately some of you admit, and I'm glad we can talk honestly and put our love for our devices aside, the Blackberry is woefully inadequate when it comes to document handling separate from email. It blew me away that I couldn't do as much as save a document that was attached either internally or to the generous 2GB of space I have on my micro SD card. Essentially I'd have to save dozens of documents and hunt through dozens of emails just to find something I may want to reference for a few weeks. I could not simply read a long document, e.g. a business plan, and bookmark where I left off. Adding insult to injury, if you work in a large city that has an underground subway or if you're traveling out of range on a vacation, you're out of luck. I can't wait for Documents To Go to come out and HOPE that it's not yet another cash draining service.

archer6 - after what seems to have been a series of interesting, mature responses containing exchanges of useful information of PDA vs. Blackberry, thanks for intruding to let us all know, complete with one sided out-of-context quotes, that you think that I have nothing better to do than compile a list of personal attacks. Kudos on finding an excuse to add to your post count. Brucejr, there is no need to backslap the rabble rousers here and you make some good points afterwards which I think we're finally all getting to agree upon.

Thanks to many of you who have helped me try to ease the transition. So far it's getting smoother as I work out the kinks. With the Treo, the benefits are seen quicker since there is a wealth of apps to sift through. With the BB I think you really need to spend time with it to see how to make it efficient and, when you do, it's a good device for what it does.

[slinky]

Here are a few critical areas where the Blackberry seriously underperforms. So that people don't go bananas, yes, it excels with the contacts/email portion:

(1) No simultaneous ring and vibrate mode, only vibrate first then ring. In a noisy city this is a horrific omission. In the office I don't hear the vibrate and if I set it to more than one vibration I'll potentially miss the call since I'll only hear it on the third ring. When I'm outdoors in a typical city day I need more than one vibration because I may miss the first one or think it is just an inbound email versus a call.

(2) Inability to download documents, as I've mentioned before. I got two proposals in PDF attached in email and couldn't read either. Zooming in left me with illegible type. You aren't looking at the native document. Using the view text function left me with numbers all over the place that I couldn't read in the context of what any finanical statement / balance sheet looks like. This leaves me with two serious problems:

(a) There is no way to download the attachment in email that I can see. It's not an option and I'm not sure third party software enables this either. I think it just may capture the graphic sent by BB and not download the native document.

(b) Even if I had the native document, a viewer like Documents To Go is not available.

Damn. It seems that the only solution really is to carry two phones. While the Blackberry is definitely a more efficient pure email/contacts manager it is sorely lacking in the manner above. Again, I'm very appreciative of people sharing their workarounds with me.

[JSanders]

1) There are adjustments you can make. You can get louder ringtones, I had to do the same. You could set your Profiles for Office and City. Quiet yet noticeable for the office, VIBRATE and LOUD for the city. It works. I have two ringtones that will knock my socks off if used in the wrong setting.

2) I don't have that problem. I view PDFs each day out of the of the office and when traveling. I don't require the PDF to be stored on my BB, different than you however; I use BeamBerry and like for MY purposes. Clear legibility and nice zooming.

I saw in another of your posts that you must be a lawyer. For me, that explains now your propensity to debate and take immovable positions, as well as the long long long long long detailed posts. Being a lawyer is not a bad thing, of course.

[slinky]

Originally Posted by JSanders

1) There are adjustments you can make. You can get louder ringtones, I had to do the same. You could set your Profiles for Office and City. Quiet yet noticeable for the office, VIBRATE and LOUD for the city. It works. I have two ringtones that will knock my socks off if used in the wrong setting.

2) I don't have that problem. I view PDFs each day out of the of the office and when traveling. I don't require the PDF to be stored on my BB, different than you however; I use BeamBerry and like for MY purposes. Clear legibility and nice zooming.

I saw in another of your posts that you must be a lawyer. For me, that explains now your propensity to debate and take immovable positions, as well as the long long long long long detailed posts. Being a lawyer is not a bad thing, of course.

Ahh... when in doubt, blame the lawyers. :D Captain Jack Sparrow said: "There are things a man can do and things a man cannot do." If the Blackberry cannot do something, then it is an immovable position. That's all I care about!

(1) Can you tell me how to get simultaneous vibrate AND ringtone? I looked at the ringer settings and it is vibrate and then ring, not at the same time. Regarding ringer volume... seems like a LOT of non-lawyers are complaining about this (and is probably somewhat of a result of the way the speaker is designed.)

(2) Beamberry makes the UI on Smartphones look good, lol. Unfortunately after I figured out how to use it, it tells me that cannot find supported attachment types. So unless I can download the document, it's not viewable. I can't even copy it to the SD card and view it later on the phone! As I said earlier, I hope and pray that Dataviz comes out with their Docs To Go as a regular application. You'll never know how you lived without it once installed. But hey... until I can actually download an attachment as I can with any other device, I'm left... get this... having docs sent to a free hotmail account so I can download them onto my SD card on the BB.

An interesting observation ala my friends from Beantown above. Is the BB a system where corporations can lock their documents from ever leaving the vault? If so, then Beamberry and Dynoplex should never be allowed to exist on a BB or an admin should at least be able to control just how far documents can be accessed. Either way, it's frustrating because in my line of business I get a lot of formatted PDFs. I wouldn't want to read through them on the mobile but at least I can grab what I need quickly.

BTW, the detailed posts are so that people understand clearly the problem.

[JSanders]

They make such an easy target! Captain Jack is a lush.

1- No I can't, because you can't have it your way. BB is not Burger King, in this case. But there are workarounds. I have seen a dozen or so complaints about not having simultaneous vibrate and ring. There are options that help get past that. They probably just are unhappy in life anyway.
Try these loud ringtones... your friends will love you.
http://www.blackberryforums.com/gene...tml#post537482

2- See--you found a workable alternative.

Correct, some corporations with higher security concerns do not/would not allow BeamBerry and Dynoplex on their BBs. I am fine with it in my business.

I do clearly understand your problem.

[jeremyckitching]

I was wondering when this was going to move to the Rants and Raves section.

[bryawn]

I recently jumped from a Treo to a BlackBerry, but of my own accord. I'm on a Verizon family plan and am sort of locked into this carrier (family loves the perceived superior coverage).

In considering the various devices, I finally settled on the 8830. What's incredibly apparent is that all the smartphones platforms can do the job at some level: each has a full keyboard, good phones, email, media, browser etc. It's a lot like buying a car -- either the car has the features you want or its not in game. It often comes down to personal preference and what you want to do or what you like.

There is one other difference across cars -- and smartphones. Some are just built better than others. For that reason, I'm very happy with the 8830. Compared to the Treo it has a higher degree of refinement. Things just work, it's more reliable and I'm able to navigate through the various functions with more speed and precision.

It's like comparing a BMW to a Pontiac. Sure they may both have similar spec sheets, but in head-to-head comparisons, the BMW wins every time. Likewise, the 8830 spanks the Treo.

Nuff said.

[slinky]

Originally Posted by bryawn

There is one other difference across cars -- and smartphones. Some are just built better than others. For that reason, I'm very happy with the 8830. Compared to the Treo it has a higher degree of refinement. Things just work, it's more reliable and I'm able to navigate through the various functions with more speed and precision.

It's like comparing a BMW to a Pontiac. Sure they may both have similar spec sheets, but in head-to-head comparisons, the BMW wins every time. Likewise, the 8830 spanks the Treo.

Nuff said.

Actually, my calculator is more reliable than even the sublime BlackBerry. That doesn't mean that it is better built.

It has become very apparent to me that (a) the Blackberry is really not a PDA yet and (b) most who own a Blackberry think that just because it does a superb job and is designed specifically for contacts and email that it is better. If you want to do a car analogy, the BB is your sporty Porsche without the options and your Treo is a Lexus with all the options. Each has it's limitations. BB is somewhat better for pure business email/contacts/reliability while a PDA is definitely better for flexibility of use.

BB Pros: Great contacts manager. Well integrated into email use. Very easy to see emails, respond, find what you need. Superb reliability. Don't need to use your reset button for the most part. Some great software now available (chat client, today screen). Reasonable battery life.

BB Cons: No storage options - e.g. can't lock emails, can't undelete, cannot save virtually anything including attachments on the device, no native document viewing (a HUGE negative) with limited supported file types, navigation generally sucks other than getting through email and contacts. Extras are weak (sound is mediocre, limited mega expensive applications) and makes almost no use of the SD card - at the moment.

Treo/PDA Pros: Thousands of well written cost effective applications. Excellent email client, superior one handed operation, native documents editing and viewing (HUGE plus) and can view multitude of file types, sound and media options superior (you appreciate this if you're a public transport commuter), everything can be saved on the device, far superior nagivation (on Palm), menus include shortcuts. Excellent battery life.

Treo/PDA Cons: With some PDAs (treo at least) there is a good reason why Seidio offers a cover with a reset hole, email and contacts very good with Agendus/Snapper but not nearly as well integrated as BB, many business do not support it (POP/imap clients), takes some maintenance to ensure it's running smoothly.

If you take the time to set up your PDA properly, you can have a great device almost as efficient as the BB. The trade off for installing applications - you may not mind the occasional reset and blip but with some devices you must know and maintain your device to get it to run very smoothly with many applications. (The sliding scale.) For pure crazy business day response, the BB is definitely the best device. But from there it's evident that other than email/contacts - which is what many people do most of the day, even myself - it's quite lacking at the moment. Some of you have the luxury of being able to have other devices with you, e.g. it's easy for you to take your laptop, MP3 player, whatever, along with you. For some of us the point of mobile convenience is that all you need for the most part is one device - that is how the Treo spoils you.

It's taken me time to get used to my BB. I like it now but I find myself reminded that I'm missing flexibility where I really liked it. I'm not so fond of the tradeoff although I've found myself able to live with it -- except for the lack of native document viewing. Hopefully DataViz will conquer that problem soon. I'll live with a crappy MP3 player.

PS - JSanders... funny man...