[barbwyr]

Originally Posted by Peeps

Go to: options > advanced options > return stolen goods

For many people I would agree.

[MBW]

Mr. Sanders - et al -

Please remember that at the root of this there's a woman who has been repeatedly and publicly humiliated and treated like a criminal through no fault of her own and with no misdeed of her own.

A store's interests on its own regard to not give it authority above or beyond the law. Illegal search and seizure: still illegal. Privacy law still applies. Probable cause through the personal witnessing of an event is still a prerequisite.

If a store's workers exceed their authority, making a scene is any individual's best recourse - and calling the police first is the very best course of action. If you have pals in the police - as I do - you may learn that a lot of their decisions about how to handle the situation are governed by who made the call.

And behaviorally, there is a ****-of-the-walk attitude thing for any retail employee who exceeds proper response protocols.

I've been around a lot of TV newsrooms, too - this is the kind of story that is fun to run - swaggering store employee exceeds bounds and harasses customers. I've also been on the other side of it, as an executive at a Fortune 100 retail chain - and had friends in security for the chain.

You may choose not to pursue my methods, but for the situation DebraHart kept encountering, passiveness is not a response I would recommend, and I stand by my advice.

That said - I also find it extremely unlikely that the BB is involved - though there is an electronic ID on newer OEM batteries that has the potential for triggering an alarm that's not appropriately adjusted, no such misadjustment should ever be allowed to have a consequential negative result on any customer.

Finally - I am not an attorney and I would encourage anyone to seek legal advice from one before pursuing any specific avenue of response.

[JSanders]

I just feel strongly that publicly humiliating anyone is not a recourse. In most cases, even a store employee is simply doing the job as they were instructed. That is not cause for your chewing out and such.

If it works for you, and you can sleep well at night with yourself, then enjoy your course of action.

[Shaun]

In most cases the store employees are looking for a reaction on the part of the customer when the alarm sounds. If there is no reaction, it is not often they will hunt you down without additional reason (i.e. video proof, employee witness).

I have had other phone/key combos that set off store alarms, and I would just keep walking after stopping several times. So my redundant advice, keep walking.

[stevetaz]

As a director of security for a chain of retail stores and in the business for more years than I care to count, I am always amused to see various individual's ideas and thoughts on what is legal and what is right....in their opinions.

Of all the posts in this thread it seems to me that Mr. Sanders has the most reasonable thoughts. Perhaps he is a business owner and understands the balance of inventory control and customer service, satisfaction and what that means to profitability.

Some people seem to think that any business owner, large or small, is out to screw the public and their employees are there to amuse themselves with other's misfortunes. I don't know many business owners who have that kind of approach or those kinds of employees, but I guess they are out there. Probably not for long though. Who has time for that?

EAS systems that alarm do, in general, give store personnel the right and probable cause to investigate the reason for the alarm. Can they physically stop an uncooperative customer? No, not without other evidence, but they can ask for their cooperation. Can they grab a person's purse or package without the owner's permission? No.

In all my years of this business I can't recall seeing or hearing of a cell phone setting off a system, but I would also say it couldn't be impossible. This is not a perfect technology (actually there are several types), but it has improved by leaps and bounds from where it started.

What I did not hear from the original poster is how they determined it had to be the phone setting it off. As I think someone else suggested, did the OP enter without the BB and have no alarm and then enter with the BB and the alarm went off? More often than not, there is a reason the system alarms go off, usually a tag hidden somewhere on the person or their posessions and it could be a tag hidden in the phone too.

If they were truly mistreated by store personnel, they should indeed seek reasonable remedies and stay away from that store.

Look for confrontation and threaten the staff? I suppose you could, but what if that person had a bad day and it escalates? Do you risk injury to prove a point?

I don't get it. Can't we all just get along?

Sorry for the long diatribe......

SteveTaz

[Shaun]

Thanks for the perspective SteveTaz. Can you tell me, if an alarm goes off upon my exit, do I have an obligation to return to the store, if I know that I have not unlawfully removed something from the store?

I always assume if there is something legitimately wrong, someone will approach me (i.e. store security) about it.

[wawasteele]

Way before I owed a BB, I would set off alarms in some stores. I have no idea why. One employee told me once it must be my power wheelchair, but why? Anyway, I haven't set one off in ages now and again, I have no reason why I was before and now I am not.

It is still unnerving every time I pass through one though. I catch myself holding my breathe until I find I haven't set one off every time I enter and leave any store.

The main problem I see from the OP is that she sets them off in many stores and not just one. If it were one, that could be dealt with. Since it is multiple stores, like I used to do, there is no good answer with management.

I do suggest that she does the test with someone else taking the BB through the sensors of a store that she has just set off and see if she can verify if it's the BB or the battery. She could even ask the store personnel to do that. If it's definitely the BB or the battery, I would go back to where she bought them and request a replacement model.

Wanda

[Baldie]

I had this issue. I got my pearl and was making all kinds of store alarms go off. I seriously thought it was maybe the holster I was using but I used a leather one instead of the plastic one and still didn't work. Someone then mentioned to me that I may have a security tag somewhere that could have been reactived which can happen. Low and behold I found a security tag in my wallet that I've had for over a year. Since removing it no more alarms. Check everything that you carry with you all the time, especially wallets and purses. The tag could have been reactivated.

[barbwyr]

Originally Posted by shaun27612

Thanks for the perspective SteveTaz. Can you tell me, if an alarm goes off upon my exit, do I have an obligation to return to the store, if I know that I have not unlawfully removed something from the store?

I always assume if there is something legitimately wrong, someone will approach me (i.e. store security) about it.

Are you obligated...No...they can NOT detain you without your cooperation. However, if they missed a hard tag or ink device and you get it home, good luck getting it removed later. Working retail, I always make sure they get all the tags and no I do not stop for the alarms as I have done nothing wrong.

Walmart's alarms always seem to be the worst. Many older Targets are also more likely to go off by phone and keys and even a purchased extension cord.

[raven71]

Wirelessly posted (8310 Curve)

I have a question how come it isn't being set off when walking into the store?
You go through the same entrance in or out. At least that is what I realized today at the mall.
Sears, Macys, Barnes & Nobles. Just to name a few. The Entrance is also the Exit and they have those detectors there.

[barbwyr]

Originally Posted by raven71

Wirelessly posted (8310 Curve)

I have a question how come it isn't being set off when walking into the store?
You go through the same entrance in or out. At least that is what I realized today at the mall.
Sears, Macys, Barnes & Nobles. Just to name a few. The Entrance is also the Exit and they have those detectors there.

Not always. Store like Target and Walmart where I have always seen this problem have a seperate entrance and exit. I have seen people set them off both in and out but I have also seen first hand how much effort is put into fixing the entry antenas when they need repair. The store I worlked at routinely let the maintanence of the entry antenas slide till a service call was needed on an exit. You would be surprised at how many of these antenas simply don't work at all because they have not been serviced or adjusted in years.

[strike2tamu]

Doesn't look like the OP is going to comment.

[Dawg]

thanks for chiming in baldie i was the one that suggested the tag on your person because that happened to me. To all the aggressive he man types one day you will run into the wrong person when you blow your stack over something so petty. If I set the alarm off its usually the stores fault. I have never blown up on a minimum wage person for such a simple mistake they are human after all.

[JSanders]

lol, love it Dawg.

[barbwyr]

Originally Posted by Dawg

thanks for chiming in baldie i was the one that suggested the tag on your person because that happened to me. To all the aggressive he man types one day you will run into the wrong person when you blow your stack over something so petty. If I set the alarm off its usually the stores fault. I have never blown up on a minimum wage person for such a simple mistake they are human after all.

The problem is there are too many people who do blow up over simple things and sometimes it is indeed the persons fault or rather the fault of no one in the case of keys and phones but these people become hostile as if it's the stores responsibilty to make sure they never have an issue.

There was a child on one of those news shows who for some reason sets of the sensors in every store he goes in. It's just something in his body that the sensors pick up, but the family says he's never had any type of surgery.

So I think most of the phantom alarms are being caused by the transmitters the aliens are placing in us.

[rachamphetamine]

Originally Posted by raven71

Wirelessly posted (8310 Curve)
I have a question how come it isn't being set off when walking into the store?

This happens frequently at my store despite it having the same doors for entering and exiting. Out of curiosity when I was at work today I counted how many people set off our detectors. In the 20 people that I managed to pay attention to, I'd say about 5 of them set it off on their way in when they weren't holding anything more than a cell phone and/or keys.

And speaking as the minimum wage person who has to check your bag when you set off the detectors on the way out of the store, civility is much appreciated, no matter how aggravating you find it. It's not that fun for us to do either, promise.

[jmwking]

I'll weigh in, having 10 years of mall-based retail management under my belt.

Our loss prevention office was very adamant about our being very careful about how we stopped anyone who set off our gates. Most especially, we were not to accuse them of taking anything we didn't actually see them take off the shelf and conceal. There are people out there who bring merchandise into the store, pull it out of a pocket, and put it back - trying to get accused of stealing so they can sue for defamation.

On the other hand, if someone did set it off, we would politely ask them to come back in so we could deactivate their tags. Wouldn't want them to set off other stores' gates, after all. We'd then go through the all the stuff they bought, having them go through the gates again and again. If we found the ("accidentally" stolen) product, we'd just "manage" to keep it. No accusations, no questions, no loss. If they were a regular, they wouldn't be anymore.

I did have the occasional customer who had an ID card that would set the gates off (and it was quite rare). They knew it, and would come in the store with their wallets held above their heads to keep the gate from going off, announce it, and exit the same way. Within a few weeks of taking any new store, I knew which employers had those ID cards, and was completely prepared for it. I certainly didn't want to alienate any customers for something outside their control.

-jk

[barbwyr]

OT but related to the last post. We had people actually take items off the shelf, insuring that our UC Security saw them then proceed into the bathroom and flush it. Then leave the store. Why?? Because you can't servale in a private area and if you detained them you were guilty of false arrest not only because they couldn't maintain contact, but because they did not have the merch on them and they would win. This became big because it actually happened and not only did the UC lose his job, but the Head of Security did also for failing to properly train his staff.

[stevetaz]

Stopping someone you lose sight of, especially if they left your view and went into a private area? No sensors as people enter the bathroom with unpaid merchandise? UC people identified by shoplifters making sure they witness their staged thefts?

Hmmmmmm. Can't imagine why the head of security might lose their job.....

SteveTaz

Originally Posted by barbwyr

OT but related to the last post. We had people actually take items off the shelf, insuring that our UC Security saw them then proceed into the bathroom and flush it. Then leave the store. Why?? Because you can't servale in a private area and if you detained them you were guilty of false arrest not only because they couldn't maintain contact, but because they did not have the merch on them and they would win. This became big because it actually happened and not only did the UC lose his job, but the Head of Security did also for failing to properly train his staff.

[NJBlackBerry]

This has moved quite far away from he original post....
And has nothing to do with the BlackBerry.